Operation Ipoh - Day 1 (Gua Tempurung)

[Psyche]

I tend to agree with Les on both counts, Khew.
With two near identical species flyng around it is easy enough to lose track of one and follow the other.

As for Saletara (named after the Orang Seletar) this used to be a not uncommon butterfly in the past. All I had seen are cream, never white, and deeper in colour below. It is not white above as in A. albina or have that tinge of bluish-white on the underside.
The other important features are the black margins on the termen and on the costa above and below. They are very dark, almost jet-black making them distinctive.

I noticed in past postings the difference between these two have been brought up, and almost invariably the pic was of A. albina. This attest to the rarity of Saletara.

Currently the name is S. panda (after the Roman Goddess of food, not the bear),while liberia is reserved for the papuan forms.

TL Seow

[Commander]

Sorry, getting a bit confusing here. So what you're saying is that all those that we were shooting were A. albina? From the shots on the Yutaka website, it does appear that what we shot looks closer to the Saletara than A. albina. Or is the Yutaka website showing wrong shots?

Also, in Plate 8 Fig 19 of C&P4, that male A. albina sure doesn't look like what we shot at Gua Tempurung.

[Commander]

And a final shot of a Blue Leaf Blue (Amblypodia narada taooana) puddling. The purple upperside of this fellow is gorgeous!

[Psyche]

Sorry, getting a bit confusing here. So what you're saying is that all those that we were shooting were A. albina? From the shots on the Yutaka website, it does appear that what we shot looks closer to the Saletara than A. albina. Or is the Yutaka website showing wrong shots?

Also, in Plate 8 Fig 19 of C&P4, that male A. albina sure doesn't look like what we shot at Gua Tempurung.

Nothing wrong with both.

The Yutaka website shows a male Saletara that is whiter than usual, lighting perhaps.
C&P4 shows an A. albina male that is typically taken from the highlands of Malaya.

Have a look at the status of A. albina in Thailand on the Yutaka site.
Appias albina albina no longer exist in Thailand.
The whole population of A. albina in Thailand, whether highland or lowland, whether with or without dark borders is now Appias albina darada. The distribution map shows specimens are taken right at the very border with Malaysia.

When the status of the Malayan population is reviewd (we'll have to wait for a Japanese scientist probably) rest assured it will be changed to A. albina darada as well.

The original race or norminate subspecies A. albina albina is from Ambon in the Moluccas islands.

The single male of A. albina darada shown is very similar.

TL Seow

[Painted Jezebel]

I, too, am confused about Appias albina, as I admit on my website, as I have come across two forms of the female here on Samui. These are given different names in different publications. I will also admit that I have only seen females of Saletera panda (as I call it, though I have used S. liberia here as that is what it is called in C&P4) both in Endau-Rompin and Borneo, never males.

Regarding the Bassarona species, the best thing I can do is to refer you to the 'Travels' section of my website, and in the Malaysia section, you will find examples of both B. teuta and B. recta next to each other, both found at Gopeng. The difference in the positioning of the the last spot near the costa is quite clear. I am sure that SK got B. recta and Chng got B. teuta.

Oh! I forgot to say earlier that I love the Malayan White Flat, I have never seen it before. Thank you.

[Commander]

Thanks for an interesting discussion, Les & Seow. If this conclusion is accurate, then it would be good material for a paper to present the existence of the subspecies darada of A. albina in Malaysia. I don't think any sort of information has been published to that effect yet.

So, to summarise, we have :

Appias albina darada (male) from Koh Samui


Subject Pierid from Gua Tempurung, Perak


Saletara panda distanti from Klong Nakha, Ranong, Thailand


And the discussion that we have here, points to the conclusion that the subject Pierid that was photographed from Gua Tempurung, is a male Appias albina darada.

By coincidence (or fortune if you may call it that), I took two specimens from that location in Gua Tempurung. One was a Fluffy Tit that Loke or Cher Hern showed me, and the other was this Appias/Saletara. Both were trampled by the hordes of visitors and unable to fly. So I just kept them anyway. Will show the Pierid in due course for further discourse.

[Painted Jezebel]

SK, I, too, have thoroughly enjoyed this discussion. Here is another photo, not so bright, of a male A. albina from Samui, which, I think, is closer to what you took.

[Psyche]

Khew, if you have a specimen in hand this should solves the mystery.
One notable difference is the size.
While albina is the size of the common A. lynceus, S. panda is noticeably smaller.

Although I have seen a lot of S. panda of both sexes they were a long time ago.
I have a lingering doubt because these two look so similar.

Les, I am surprised you have not come across any male Saletara since you appear quite cofident with the ID.

TL Seow

[Painted Jezebel]

Les, I am surprised you have not come across any male Saletara since you appear quite cofident with the ID.

I should have added 'in the wild'. I have seen quite a few males in collections back in England. I also recall that the forewing apex in Saletera is more pointed than in Appias. I think the term 'quite confident' is apt as I can not be fully sure, but I am always happy to be proved wrong, as is often the case.

[Commander]

I think the term 'quite confident' is apt as I can not be fully sure, but I am always happy to be proved wrong, as is often the case.

We're not here to prove who's right or wrong. Such discussions are good to have, as it presents different perspectives from different people, and we learn as a group. There are new aspects of butterflies that individually we may not have noticed or considered, until someone else highlights it.

I just wish that TeoTP and Steven Neo would jump in and discuss as well, cos I'm sure that in their own respective 'museums' they would have more than a couple of these species' specimens, and observations to share.