Recent Skipper Shots

[Psyche]

Though I 'll check the "bible" on how to differentiate the Pelopidas group of Genera. I didnt know it was that easy

Mid tibiae spined : Baoris , Pelopidas

Mid tibiae not spined : Borbo, Caltoris, Polytremis, Parnara

( mid tibiae : What C&P4 meant are just tibiae(singular-tibia), the middle section of an insect's leg consisting of femur(thigh), tibia(shin) and a 5-segmented tarsus(foot). )

All 3 pics show spines on the mid tibiae and are Baoris ( Pelopidas have spots on the hindwing underside)

Post 5 pic is B. farri with a full complement of spots.

Post 8 pic 1 should be B. oceia.

Post 8 pic 2 should be B. farri with reduced spotting.(underside colour is also close to that of post 5 pic.)

TL Seow

( A correction : I have removed the hyphen from the word 'mid-tbiae' as per C&P4. )

[Peacock Royal]

Many thanks Mr Seow.
I am yet to figure out what exactly you have mentioned in your last post - your comments are really good for everyone here to think and learn.

[Commander]

Tumpang Federick's thread.

What's your take on this one, Seow? Also another Baoris?

[Psyche]

Tumpang Federick's thread.

What's your take on this one, Seow? Also another Baoris?

Yes, and from the paler brown sheen and the single upper cell spot that can be seen, this is Baoris farri. (genitalia confirmation is I feel unnecessary as the difficulty is seperating B. oceia from the Kedawi B. penicillata.)

(Note : the word mid tbiae is misleading. It just means the 'middle' tibiae. The spines are found MAINLY on the LOWER ENDS of all the tibiae -see C&P4's drawing of the leg of Pelopidas. Baoris's mid tibiae are described as heavily spined - meaning it is more spiny than Pelopidas )

( Sorry about the hyphen in 'mid-tibiae', Khew. That was my mistake, not C&P4's. I have corrected my earlier post. )

Life is certainly going to be a lot easier from now on.
TL Seow
(A correction: Pelopidas' mid tibiae are also described as heavily spined. So they are both equally spiny. )

[Painted Jezebel]

Thanks for all this info, Seow. When given with pictures, it makes it so much easier to understand. Now to revisit all my LBJs! Wonder if I will find anything hidden in an incorrect folder?

[Psyche]

Thank you, Les,
I will now have to eat much of my words in many previous postings. Ah, well, as they say, live and learn.

I realised that those not used to scientific terminology may still be confused, so I thought I will reword the whole thing simply thus:

If you can see SPINES on the LEGS,

It can ONLY be BAORIS OR PELOPIDAS.

It is NOT CALTORIS or any of the other genera.

TL SEow

[Psyche]

After scrutinising the legs of a large number of SWIFTS on the net and BC's Checklist, I have come to a realisation. Houston! We have a Problem !

All have spined legs. They are basically the same in that the fore-legs are unspined, the mid-legs have spines on the tibial ends, and the hind-legs have 2 sets, at the tibial ends, and midway on the shafts.

The assumption that only Baoris and Pelopidas have spined legs have now been shot to bits.

It seems that the mid tibial spines referred to, are fine spines on the shaft of the tibia of the mid-leg, not the coarse ones readily seen by the eyes. These fine spines will only be apparent with perfect focus on the mid-legs. C&P4's text does not provide any clarification on these spines.

Sorry to those who may have recaptioned their photo album, and those who might have experienced a mental shutdown from my confusing postings. I certainly did not expect such ambiguity from C&P4. However, do bear in mind that the keys were constructed for collectors with a specimen in hand.

This is an on-going learning experience. I can see that the legs might offer some assistance in ID, since there are stout, thin, furry and very spikey ones. But until they can be matched correctly, this is a no-show.

TL Seow

[Glorious Begum]

Luckily I can't understand all of these. Else I will be more confused

After scrutinising the legs of a large number of SWIFTS on the net and BC's Checklist, I have come to a realisation. Houston! We have a Problem !

All have spined legs. They are basically the same in that the fore-legs are unspined, the mid-legs have spines on the tibial ends, and the hind-legs have 2 sets, at the tibial ends, and midway on the shafts.

The assumption that only Baoris and Pelopidas have spined legs have now been shot to bits.

It seems that the mid tibial spines referred to, are fine spines on the shaft of the tibia of the mid-leg, not the coarse ones readily seen by the eyes. These fine spines will only be apparent with perfect focus on the mid-legs. C&P4's text does provide any clarification on these spines.

Sorry to those who may have recaptioned their photo album, and those who might have experienced a mental shutdown from my confusing postings. I certainly did not expect such ambiguity from C&P4. However, do bear in mind that the keys were constructed for collectors with a specimen in hand.

This is an on-going learning experience. I can see that the legs might offer some assistance in ID, since there are stout, thin, furry and very spikey ones. But until they can be matched correctly, this is a no-show.

TL Seow

[Commander]

Luckily I can't understand all of these. Else I will be more confused

It means that we have to tweak some of the IDs again, as the basic key to the various genera is now "shot to bits" like Seow said.

I was also discussing with Horace, and was about to ask Seow for his opinion about it, when he posted this revelation last night. Those species for which we have a fair bit of certainty, due to the early stages documentation, particularly of the Caltoris, I note that the specimens do have spined legs as well.

Those of you who want to know what we are discussing, refer to page 385 of C&P4 where the table of ID keys show the features for the different genus. I also checked the definition of mid-tibiae, and it does appear that some entomologists refer to the parts between the joints of the legs as "mid". An example, although not of lepidoptera, can be found here. This Australian article shows the difference between two species based on the ventral hair fringe on the mid-tibiae of the legs of some Hemiptera.

Seow's point about the spines will still be applicable where the shots clearly show spines along the mid-tibiae of the legs of the skippers. At least it will help eliminate certain genera to a certain extent, but can be used as one of the diagnostic criteria to narrow down the ID of a species.

[Peacock Royal]

Two different skippers (1st two shots and last two shots are the same specimen) were shot at Lornie Trail last week. I guess both are
Potanthus omaha omaha ?