Results 1 to 3 of 3

Thread: Pantoporia hordonia & sandaka in Singapore.

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    7,448

    Default Pantoporia hordonia & sandaka in Singapore.

    These two species can be very confusing in Singapore.
    It is probable that crossing between the two and the small colonies have results in intermediate forms being common.

    There is no comparable forms like the typical hordonia in P. Malaysia, where the grey submarginal band is very broad and the orange band may be obsolete.

    P. hordonia P. Malaysia.
    Male with broad grey submarginal band/fascia. Raub.
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...0/DSC_0229.JPG
    Male with orange submarginal band obsolete.
    https://live.staticflickr.com/1549/2...0d2be7e4_c.jpg

    Typical male P. sandaka ,Raub.
    https://blogger.googleusercontent.co...0/DSC_0137.JPG



    PANTO.png
    Pantoporia hordonia hordonia
    In Singapore the grey band is not that wide but still wider than the orange submarginal band.
    The male have a narrower 'foot.
    Orange submarginal band may be very irregular, much broken, or obsolete.
    Male with small HW grey brand.
    Males. ( iDs tentative.)
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/195170218
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/175183123
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/141239367
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/19657664
    Females. ( IDs tentative.)
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/195170191
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/104523291
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/81146818
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/32403114


    Pantoporia sandaka sandaka.
    In this species the FW grey submarginal band is typically narrower, being hemmed in by the orange bands.
    The orange submarginal band is well defined ,more regular and prominent, & not broken up.
    However the females of the two can look rather similar.
    The male have a larger foot than P. hordonia.
    Male with large whitish HW brand.
    Males.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/256468037
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134397320
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86976671
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/30309158
    Females. ( IDs probable.)
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/140043534
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/9679604
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/20177931
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135218837


    TL Seow: Cheers.
    PS . The males IDed as P. hordonia are tentative.
    The 'foot' is relatively short ,and all seem to have a bulging abdomen of a female.

    Below are four observations of typical P. hordonia males from P. Malaysia.
    Note longer 'foot' and a slender abdomen.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/227973314
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/202944195
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/144007351
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/130786312
    Last edited by Psyche; 06-Sep-2025 at 07:12 AM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2004
    Location
    Singapore
    Posts
    15,671

    Default

    Thanks for this excellent analysis, Dr Seow! Yes, it's definitely confusing when they are so similar. At least with inat and regular postings of either species from Singapore and Malaysia, we can continue to monitor individuals for these diagnostic features across more specimens.
    Khew SK
    Butterflies of Singapore BLOG
    Try not. Do, or do not. There is no try

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    7,448

    Default

    This is an ongoing puzzle.
    A positive ID of a male P. hordonia seems to be not yet.

    Positive IDs of male and female P. sandaka are present.
    eg. These two below have the grey submarginal fascia much constricted and reduced.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86976671
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135218837

    It doesn't help when museum specimens are wrongly labelled.
    Below. Despite the FW being raised high to show the male brand/speculum, misID occur.
    P. hordonia (misIDed as P. sandaka)
    Note the HW grey speculum barely intrude into the orange discal band.
    This example from Kedah in the north have wide orange markings of a partial dsf.
    https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2847204857

    P. sandaka .The large HW white speculum intruding into the orange discal band.
    https://www.gbif.org/occurrence/2847204850


    In Taiwan there is only one species ,P. hordonia rihodona. (rihodona is an anagram of hordonia.)
    There is no P. sandaka.
    The species ID is thus unquestioned.
    Two males.
    http://dearlep.tw/species.html?namec...89817433770c20
    Two females.
    https://moth.tbn.org.tw/images/twmot...69494347377739
    https://moth.tbn.org.tw/images/twmot...69494347377739

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 07-Sep-2025 at 08:28 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Join us