Doi Mae Takhrai National Park, Thailand 3 - 4 Nov 2013

[Psyche]

Unforunately, no-one else can either! I think H. zola but I can not be sure. Are they different species? Personally, I am not sure.

It is similar to the recent paper regarding Euthalia phemius and E. ipona. I do not agree with their comments, for a huge number of reasons. Entirely personal.

The males of H. zema & zola have different genitalia, while phemius & ipona have similar ones, I believed.

Here is a hypothetical situation to think about.
Consider Halpe pelethronix ( P ) and H. wantona ( W ).
The males can be diiferentiated by their genitalia but the females not by any mean as stated in C&P4. (DNA analysis not done yet).

Since the male genitalial feature will be determined by the male sex chromosome any mating will result in a specific outcome.
Let us call the common female C.

If P mates with C , all male offsprings will be P & all females will be C.
IF W mates with C, all male offsprings will be W & all females will be C.

Can P & W still be considered separate species despite having different genitalia ?

On an aside note, I find it amazing that Papilio alcmenor is called Redbreast in Thailand.
It would appeared that the namer is only familiar with the first part of the name.

TL Seow

[Painted Jezebel]

This is probably not the place for a lengthy discussion re DNA and genitalia examinations. We still have much to learn about DNA, it has only been around for 60 years and understood, partially, much less.

Regarding P. alcmenor, Redbreast has long been the common name for the species. Blame the British (in India I think), they are the ones who named it as such! I think it reminded them of the small european bird, the robin, which is affectionately called Robin Redbreast.

[Painted Jezebel]

A couple of questions regarding earlier photos.

Re MT8, I wondered if it was Burara oedipodea belesis rather than B. harisa harisa. Is there a way to distinguish the two by undersides only?
Re MT15. I believe the ssp. should be Chersonesia intermedia rahrioides, with is the northern ssp. Pisuth has it upgraded to a seperate species, C. rahrioides, but Yutaka has not changed it. Not sure who is correct.

[Painted Jezebel]

A few from me just to confirm I was there. Any terrible pictures can be put down to the idiot behind the camera, anything that has come out well is down to the improved camera I was temporarily using, as mine broke 2 days before the trip.

A huge thanks to Antonio for allowing me use of his 7D.

LD1 Curetis acuta dentata (male)
LD2 Pelopidas assamensis (upperside)
LD3 Elymnias patna patnoides (male)
LD4 Mooreana trichoneura pralaya - note the wider yellow hindwing markings to that found in Singapore.
LD5 & 6 Ypthima baldus baldus? - A d.s.f. has been shown on this thread, but this appears to be a w.s.f. Also, four hindwing spots on the upperside seem more than usual!

[Psyche]

I thought it was Papilio bootes which was the original Redbreast,

MT8. B. oedipodea can be separated thus: solid orange discal patch; shorter curved vein 8 with wide space 8.; orange cilia to nearly vein 7.
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/med...unte_ai919.jpg

LD 5 & 6 : Looks good for baldus ; the dark bands have the same curves & the underside spotting typical.

TL Seow : Cheers.

[Painted Jezebel]

P. bootes is the Tailed Redbreast, at least according to here and India.

Thank you for the explaination re the two Burara species.

May I humbly ask one thing, can you please say whether you are talking about fore or hind wings. When you say vein 8, it is obviously forewing, but with lower numbered veins, it can, at times, be rather confusing.

[Psyche]

P. bootes is the Tailed Redbreast, at least according to here and India.

Thank you for the explaination re the two Burara species.

May I humbly ask one thing, can you please say whether you are talking about fore or hind wings. When you say vein 8, it is obviously forewing, but with lower numbered veins, it can, at times, be rather confusing.

It is the hindwing. There is a marked difference in the 2 species in the shape of HW vein 8 & the marginal space 8.

TL Cheers.

[Painted Jezebel]

It is the hindwing. There is a marked difference in the 2 species in the shape of HW vein 8 & the marginal space 8.

TL Cheers.

Absolutely right. I have just done a check of my confirmed B. oedipodea and the one we photographed in CM. The difference in shape is obvious when compared, yet I do not find it mentioned in the resources I have. I must try and remember this, it is so clear.

And yes, oops, I forgot that the hindwing goes up to vein 8, why I thought it was only v. 7, I have no idea.

[Psyche]

A couple of questions regarding earlier photos.

Re MT15. I believe the ssp. should be Chersonesia intermedia rahrioides, with is the northern ssp. Pisuth has it upgraded to a seperate species, C. rahrioides, but Yutaka has not changed it. Not sure who is correct.

Funet have them as separate species as well.

In the past they may be the continental & Sundanian siblings of one species.
C. rahrioides have the HW postdiscal band very broad; & black marginal spots at the tooth & tornus.

They are worthy of being treated as distinct species.
The single record of C. intermedia in South Vietnam may be in error.

The same cannot be said of Rohana parisatis & tonkiniana.
These two baffled me completely.

TL Seow

[Angiud]

The Green Dragontail - Lamproptera meges virescens


The Angled Sunbeam - Curetis acuta dentata


The Common Tit - Hypolycaena erylus himavantus


The Staff Sergeant - Athyma selenophora bahula


The Staff Sergeant - Underside