Koh Phangan 2012

**Psyche** · 13-Sep-2012, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by Painted Jezebel

Sorry, Antonio, but I slept on this one and am now having certain doubts.

The upperside markings appear inbetween the two species, showing certain aspects of both. There is certainly a larger orange patch on the hindwing than I would normally expect on C. bulis, but the forewing markings are closer to C. bulis.

These 2 species can be difficult even with upperside.
This post 79 male should be C. bulis.

The forewing have a smaller orange patch as in bulis.
The ID key states to note the orange in space 7 which is not visible.
Space 6 (just below the left forewing) has a longer orange patch than usual.
(Addendum: Below the right forewing part of hindwing space 7 can be seen & the basal half is black.)

The hindwing cell have just a sliver of orange at the cellend, & the base is mostly dark.
This one matched the 1994 Than To, Yala male in Yutaka's website.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc3/84030001.html

It would be interesting to see the underside of this male.

The post 75 underside is C. santana. The long palpi 3rd segments indicate it is a female & its markings are orange.
Here is a male C. santana. Note its shorter palpi.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7...n+Sunbeam).jpg

TL Seow

**Angiud** · 13-Sep-2012, 05:41 PM

Ok, what I can do is to go again in the same location, tomorrow if the weather will allow, and get more pictures of the small population always stay around the ford of the creek.

Storm coming....

**Psyche** · 15-Sep-2012, 05:38 PM

Les had shown me 2 valid examples of male C. bulis from Samui.

The underside is practically identical to that of C. santana, without an inner dark line on the hindwing (one with a faint dislocated one).
The only difference I can see is that the forewing line/band is more zigzag or sawtoothed especially at the top, instead of scalloped.

This also raise the question of the presence of C. bulis in Singapore.
While it is true no 'white' female had been seen, it is also true that no female of C. santana has been shot before, indicating the rarity of this sex.
This is unlike C. saronis where the female had been shot many times.

TL Seow

**Painted Jezebel** · 15-Sep-2012, 05:51 PM

Originally Posted by Psyche

While it is true no 'white' female had been seen, it is also true that no female of C. santana has been shot before, indicating the rarity of this sex.
This is unlike C. saronis where the female had been shot many times.

TL Seow

On Samui, the female C. bulis is not that rare, I have seen her at least a dozen times, though it is much less common than the male.

**Commander** · 16-Sep-2012, 10:23 AM

Originally Posted by Psyche

This also raise the question of the presence of C. bulis in Singapore.
While it is true no 'white' female had been seen, it is also true that no female of C. santana has been shot before, indicating the rarity of this sex.
This is unlike C. saronis where the female had been shot many times.

I guess this is where Horace can come in and help. The only way to gather more data is to breed and keep specimens of C. santana for reference, esp the females, so that we have more evidence of how the females look like. Horace has a shot of the female that he bred earlier on our blog article here

**Painted Jezebel** · 16-Sep-2012, 10:49 AM

I have this as a very old and faded male C. bulis. However, I am now wondering whether this could be the female C. santana. (Taken with my old box brownie back in 2007)

**Psyche** · 16-Sep-2012, 11:56 AM

Originally Posted by Commander

I guess this is where Horace can come in and help. The only way to gather more data is to breed and keep specimens of C. santana for reference, esp the females, so that we have more evidence of how the females look like. Horace has a shot of the female that he bred earlier on our blog article here

Thanks Khew. I forgot about this female.
Intriquingly its forewing band is sawtoothed at the upper end & the band continues interrupted to the hindwing tornus.

Horace, do you have an upper of this female you bred?

TL Seow

**Psyche** · 16-Sep-2012, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by Painted Jezebel

I have this as a very old and faded male C. bulis. However, I am now wondering whether this could be the female C. santana. (Taken with my old box brownie back in 2007)

Interesting, you have a male Curetis.
The forewing resembles C. bulis, but the hindwing does not.
The hindwing's orange cover almost the whole wing.
Below the left forewing the exposed part of space 7 is black (ended by the arching vein 7 arising from the radius (upperarm) of the cell & forming the upper border of space 6.)

I am fairly certain it is C. sperthis.
The upperside of C. sperthis is variable resembling bulis or santana, but space 7 is wholly blackened.(Correction: Key states only costa (upper margin) is black though whole of space 7 may be blackened.
The underside have black dots & the forewing band is less slanted to the termen.

TL Seow

PS. After looking at this for sometimes I think you are right. It is C. bulis male.
Even at its minimum the forewing orange patch of sperthis is like santana, ie larger & closer to the termen.
Wear had caused the black on the hindwing to fade to brown giving the impression that the hindwing is mostly orange.