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Thread: A geometrid?

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  1. #1
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    Apr 2006
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    Hong Kong
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    Quote Originally Posted by atronox View Post
    The subfamily microniinae is duller than the subfamily uraniinae, usually being black or white.
    Hey Aaron,

    If this is the case then why isn't Lyssa zampa in Microniinae? - it's black grey and white!

    More seriously, though...
    Taxonomy of Lepidoptera is not just based on external characters of a moth or butterfly's form (morphology). The internal structures, especially genitalia, and at a molecular level, the DNA, provide characters that show the relatedness (phylogeny) of one species to another.
    To use Microniinae and Uraniinae as the example, take a look at Jeremy Holloway's descriptions of the key characters that are unique to each of these subfamilies in his descriptions of them in his Moths of Borneo series. I will normally accept such information because I know that he (and other similarly experienced scientists) have taken a rigorous approach that can be repeated by fellow workers, who will usually arrive at the same conclusion independently (or not, though this is rarely the case).
    Science is all about asking questions and trying to find answers to these question. Just accepting someone else's statement without that statement being backed up by evidence that has been thoroughly and critically tested is poor science, actually it's unreasonable. To be scientific, one has to accept that one's ideas will be challanged, and if shown to be wrong then one learns from it and moves forward. Stubbornly clinging on to a belief that is clearly wrong is unacceptable - however, stubbornly clinging on to a good idea that the results show is correct, even when others around you say otherwise (without proving it) is also good science - without it we would never have heard of Darwin, Copernicus, Gallileo . . . (to name but a few) ... these are people who strove against adversity when they could not ignore the facts that the results of their methodical observations told.

    Stay curious, keep asking questions.

    cheers,

    Roger.
    Roger C. KENDRICK Ph.D.

    C & R Wildlife, Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, N.T., Hong Kong S.A.R.
    HK Moths website: http://www.hkmoths.com
    HK Moths Recording Project on i-Naturalist: http://www.inaturalist.org/projects/hong-kong-moths
    HK Moths Flickr site: http://www.flickr.com/groups/hongkongmoths/

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
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    Upper Changi
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    2,873

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    Quote Originally Posted by hkmoths View Post
    Hey Aaron,

    If this is the case then why isn't Lyssa zampa in Microniinae? - it's black grey and white!

    More seriously, though...
    Taxonomy of Lepidoptera is not just based on external characters of a moth or butterfly's form (morphology). The internal structures, especially genitalia, and at a molecular level, the DNA, provide characters that show the relatedness (phylogeny) of one species to another.
    To use Microniinae and Uraniinae as the example, take a look at Jeremy Holloway's descriptions of the key characters that are unique to each of these subfamilies in his descriptions of them in his Moths of Borneo series. I will normally accept such information because I know that he (and other similarly experienced scientists) have taken a rigorous approach that can be repeated by fellow workers, who will usually arrive at the same conclusion independently (or not, though this is rarely the case).
    Science is all about asking questions and trying to find answers to these question. Just accepting someone else's statement without that statement being backed up by evidence that has been thoroughly and critically tested is poor science, actually it's unreasonable. To be scientific, one has to accept that one's ideas will be challanged, and if shown to be wrong then one learns from it and moves forward. Stubbornly clinging on to a belief that is clearly wrong is unacceptable - however, stubbornly clinging on to a good idea that the results show is correct, even when others around you say otherwise (without proving it) is also good science - without it we would never have heard of Darwin, Copernicus, Gallileo . . . (to name but a few) ... these are people who strove against adversity when they could not ignore the facts that the results of their methodical observations told.

    Stay curious, keep asking questions.

    cheers,

    Roger.
    Yes, i have accepted the fact that i am wrong. Should start reading more! Thx Roger.
    Aaron Soh

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Hong Kong
    Posts
    357

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    Quote Originally Posted by atronox View Post
    Yes, ....... Should start reading more! Thx Roger.
    Hi Aaron,

    If you do get reading more, you'll have a good headstart on most people who study. Get a basic biological grounding - understanding the basics is fundamental (life cycles, biomes, some biochemistry, how plants and animals function). Thereafter choose an area that you find appealing, interesting and something you don't mind putting some effort into (that's a point that most people don't want to do, and its the main area that has to be tackled if you want to make a success of whatever line you choose to go down). Best of luck with the Lepidoptera hobby (be careful - don't let it completely take over your life - just yet!).

    cheers,

    Roger.
    Roger C. KENDRICK Ph.D.

    C & R Wildlife, Lam Tsuen, Tai Po, N.T., Hong Kong S.A.R.
    HK Moths website: http://www.hkmoths.com
    HK Moths Recording Project on i-Naturalist: http://www.inaturalist.org/projects/hong-kong-moths
    HK Moths Flickr site: http://www.flickr.com/groups/hongkongmoths/

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