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Thread: Potanthus confucius dushta

  1. #1
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    Default Potanthus confucius dushta

    Potanthus confucius dushta.
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/92790010.html

    P. confucius have been photographed in the past but some shots are less than ideal & most are labelled as P. omaha.
    Generally yellower overall.
    Abdominal end yellow with at most a thin basal black ring.
    FW with spots 4 & 5 broadly overlapping the spots above & below them. (Less in the female.)
    Bands with the veins not dark-dusted (or just lightly), edged with diffuse dark spots & ground lightly dusted.
    Male FW upperside with the band continuous uninterrupted by dark veins.
    Female veins may be lightly dark, FW lower three spots broad.

    These Thai males are very fine.
    https://wingscales.com/Hesperiidae/P...nfucius-dushta
    Male by Federick probably 12 years ago. Note FW with the spots broadly overlapping.
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B2W0fVicL...-confucius.jpg

    More recent shots .Males.
    2018.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/12289699
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/163651656

    The distinctive continuous yellow band in the male.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172635778
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/103448632
    Veins slightly dark -male.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145880950

    Compare the upperside of a male P. omaha with distinct dark veins below.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172978891
    And a male P. ganda .
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/162823627

    The Taiwan subspecies angustatus ( "narrowed ")
    Have slightly narrower bands & the abdominal end is darker.
    The female is quite similar & can be used as a reference for local females.
    http://digimuse.nmns.edu.tw/butterfl...7%CB%BD%BA.xml

    Addendum :Females. Note large HW spot 6.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86144160
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/102403053
    Federick's shot ?12+ years ago. Note FW spots overlapping, veins lightly dark, HW spot 6 large, & ground heavier shading.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nfGuHY9hc3...28TBC%2529.jpg
    Female. Distinct yellow; FW spots with wide overlaps; HW with large spot 6.Veins weakly dark.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173920049

    Females P. omaha for comparison.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/106791445
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/103303782
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147267181
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/162137058
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/162440420

    Female P. ganda.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/90387121

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    PS. Not rare. There are a fair number of observations.
    Last edited by Psyche; 21-Jul-2023 at 06:56 PM.

  2. #2
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    Dear Doctor Seow,

    Some of the Potanthus are prone to easily wearing down of their scales, which i attribute to their flight and quick speed, and thus the veins and scale could show differently as per what one can envision. Would there be other factors to look out for?

    Let me take a few recent shots i have to see if i am taking note of proper features

    1 - Potanthus omaha?
    i do note i have only a singular shot here, the veins are darkly dusted and the space in spot 4 overlaps with the spot below.
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173422473

    2 - Potanthus trachala?
    the space 4 and 5 spots are detach, and they are more...angular at the end? like a arrow pointing. Similarly, veins are dark dusted
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173422466

    3 - Potanthus omaha?
    The mating pair here has one open wing and one not. the one on the left has more spots overlapped in space 4 and 5 compared to the ones on the right(or lower one)
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173422464

    Would like to hear your opinion on these specimens

    Skipping regards
    Zicky
    Zick Soh

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    Potanthus confucius dushta.
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/92790010.html

    P. confucius have been photographed in the past but some shots are less than ideal & most are labelled as P. omaha.
    Generally yellower overall.
    Abdominal end yellow with at most a thin basal black ring.
    FW with spots 4 & 5 broadly overlapping the spots above & below them. (Less in the female.)
    Bands with the veins not dark-dusted (or just lightly), edged with diffuse dark spots & ground lightly dusted.
    Male FW upperside with the band continuous uninterrupted by dark veins.
    Female veins may be lightly dark, FW lower three spots equally broad.

    These Thai males are very fine.
    https://wingscales.com/Hesperiidae/P...nfucius-dushta
    Male by Federick probably 12 years ago. Note FW with the spots broadly overlapping.
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-B2W0fVicL...-confucius.jpg

    More recent shots .Males.
    2018.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/12289699
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/163651656

    The distinctive continuous yellow band in the male.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172635778
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/103448632
    Veins slightly dark -male.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/145880950

    Compare the upperside of a male P. omaha with distinct dark veins below.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172978891
    And a male P. ganda .
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/162823627

    The Taiwan subspecies angustatus ( "narrowed ")
    Have slightly narrower bands & the abdominal end is darker.
    The female is quite similar & can be used as a reference for local females.
    http://digimuse.nmns.edu.tw/butterfl...7%CB%BD%BA.xml

    Addendum :Females. Note large HW spot 6.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/86144160
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/102403053
    Federick's shot ?12+ years ago. Note FW spots overlapping, veins lightly dark, HW spot 6 large, & ground heavier shading.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-nfGuHY9hc3...28TBC%2529.jpg

    Females P. omaha for comparison.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/106791445
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/103303782
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147267181
    Female P. ganda.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/90387121

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    PS. Not rare. There are a fair number of observations.
    As a add on, is it only females that have a larger hindwing spot 6?

    And will this shot by Lumin count as Potanthus confucius?
    Inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173420557
    Last edited by Zicky; 18-Jul-2023 at 09:08 AM.
    Zick Soh

  4. #4
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    Post 2.

    1. https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173422473

    Male Potanthus ganda .
    1. The abdominal end is yellow (only 3 species in Singapore have this, namely P. omaha, ganda, & confucius.)
    2. The HW band's veins are not dark-dusted.
    3. FW band is crossed by light tawny veins & dark veins also run to costa from the cell.
    Males P. ganda.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama.../original.jpeg
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-6KehhAM8g...us%2Bganda.jpg
    Female P. ganda .Note HW veins not visible.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/166794112

    Male P. omaha have veins blacken above.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...se_site_02.jpg

    Male P. confucius yellow with the band continuous & veins barely darken.
    https://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/16984275



    2. https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173422466
    Male Potanthus trachala.

    FW spots 4 & 5 not overlapping the subapical spost above or spot 3 below.
    HW upper spot of band strongly projected out.
    Abdominal end black-banded.
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kvlAhJLLs...la-tytleri.jpg



    3. This gets difficult as the 4 views are identical.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173422464
    Potanthus ganda pair. Correction: Possibly P. omaha with the veins off focus.
    Abdominal end yellow.
    Male at top; FW veins only lightly brown. Upperside costa with two dark veins.
    Upperside vein dividing subapical spot 7 & 8 incomplete. (All veins separating subapical spots 6, 7, & 8 are completely black in P. omaha.}
    The male have some overlap of spot 5 & 6 but this is seen insome examples of all P. omaha, ganda, & mongo.
    Female with faintly dark veins, spot 5 small.

    Compare upperside P. omaha male. Veins dividing the subapical spots are completely black.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...se_site_02.jpg

    The male P. confucius have the costal yellow patch complete, hardly crossed by dark veins.
    Ssp. dushta.
    https://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/16984275
    Ssp. angustatus.
    https://mothimage.mauchiuan.com/imag...12163153656306

    Example of P. omaha in w3hich FW spot 5 overlaps spot 6.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...se_site_01.jpg
    Also P. mingo
    http://nypsbluebottle.blogspot.com/2...hus-mingo.html


    Of the few female P. confucius I have seen all have a large HW spot 6.
    Similarly the Taiwanese ssp angustatus female also seem to have a large HW spot 6.
    H.K. female.
    https://old.hkls.org/images/Potanthus_confucius.jpg

    Finally this shot is too dark to see the details properly.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173420557
    You can make out the veins on the FW are weak & blur, not defining the spots eg spots 4 & 5 well.
    There is good overlap of thev FW spots, HW spot 6 is large.
    This is a male & close to 1st male from Nan. Note not all males have large HW spot 6. Note male from Lampang is unlikely to be a male P. confucius.
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/92790010.html

    All male P. omahahere have no HW spot 6.
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/92770001.html


    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 24-Jul-2023 at 11:33 AM.

  5. #5
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    Dear Dr Seow,

    I have brightened that image Zick has brought up! Hope it helps. I personally believe it is P.omaha.

    1.
    FunnyPotanthus (1).jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173420557

    2. While I have found a few Potanthus shots of mine that have a large HW spot 6, the FW spots 4 and 5 aren't broadly overlapping with the adjacent spots as seen here but I'm not too sure.
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/172168564

    Will be looking out for more photos once I'm done with class! Thank you so much in advance!

    Cheers,
    Lumin Ong

  6. #6
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    Post 5.

    I agreed both should be Potanthus omaha as the HW veins are fairly dark dusted.

    The 1st pic is exceptional for the wide overlap of the FW spots & the very large HW spot 6.

    Still I would like to introduce a species very similar to P. confucius, a bit larger.
    There is a possibility this could find its way to Singapore.


    Potanthus pava. FW 15mm.
    Abdominal end yellow with basal black line/narrow band.
    FW band continuous as in P. confucius Overlap may varies.Male may have the base of space 2 yellow shaded (as in T. colon or besta)
    HW with a prominent spot 5 in both sexes usually large espceially on the underside.
    Underside bands edged in black streaks, not spots.
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/92820001.html

    Taiwan examples.
    https://www.tbn.org.tw/sites/ozop/fi...?itok=3FMOJ_hh
    https://kmweb.moa.gov.tw/theme_data....tration&id=110
    https://taieol.tw/pages/102051

    India.
    Male.
    https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/si...82f9fd27-1.jpg
    https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/si...938872b2-1.jpg
    Female.
    https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/si...7f0e8a61-1.jpg

    Hostplant Bamboo, Imperata (Lallang).

    Distribution : India to Taiwan, Philippine & Sulawesi, in open secondary forest.
    In P. Malaysia rare but known from Perak as far back as 1956.


    Note the 1st male have the general appearance of P. pava male but the black edgings of the band seem missing.


    TL Seow; Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 04-Aug-2023 at 12:08 AM.

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