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Thread: Hesperiidae ID Request - Singapore

  1. #11
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    Dear Dr Seow,

    Requesting ID for this suggested to be a female Baoris sp. shot in Ulu Sembawang! It is a surprisingly big skipper. Apologies for the poor quality as I could not get close for an open-wing shot but I managed to get a good shot of the sides!

    IMG_20230717_222636.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173421871

    Thank you so much in advance!

    Cheers,
    Lumin Ong

  2. #12
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    You have two different species here.
    This often happens when skippers flit in & out of view in the bushes.



    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...5445/large.jpg
    1. Female Baoris likely B. oceia.

    Very large with sweptback FW.
    Antenna appears wholly black .(pale area very weak in Baoris).
    Abdomen with more noticeable bandins.
    Often HW underside may have a pale area at the cellend.
    Dark colour.
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zofygsdg7...oris+oceia.jpg
    Note pale area at HW cellend.
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0rwJjrQ_J...oris+oceia.jpg

    Female Baoris farri in Vietnam . B. oceia is not found in Vietnam)
    Paler brown & almost always fully spotted.
    http://butterfliesvietnam.blogspot.c...ush-swift.html


    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...5971/large.jpg
    2. Female probably Pelopidas agna.
    Note this individual have a tear in the right FW & a crumpled left FW.
    There is a tiny spot just below spot 2 (the largest spot).
    This is seen in only three species. Correction: a 4th sp. Caltoris philippinafemale also have this extra spot but it lacks the cellspots.
    Male & female of Pelopidas assamensis.( Excluded by FW spots large & white & white-banded antennae.)
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/93130001.html
    Females of P. mathias & agna.
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/93120001.html
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/93090001.html

    The individual is rather worn
    The UnH is plain brown.
    P. agna is also a larger species.
    These two features suggest female P. agna.



    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 20-Jul-2023 at 08:51 PM.

  3. #13
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    Hi Dr Seow,

    Thank you so much for the ID and ID features!

    So sorry but I found another shot of the Pelopidas agna, same exact individual as the open-wing one.

    My project.jpg

    The Baoris oceia and P.agna were shot about 2 hours apart (P.agna being the one shot first) but they look very alike. Is the lack of HW cell-spots in the P.agna attributed to how worn out the individual is?

    jiankai agna maybe.jpg

    I believe this is the same individual shot by Low Jian Kai (exposure lowered), it appears to have the tear in the right FW the P.agna had. Problem being, I chased this individual and shot the left side which resulted in the B.oceia photo. I apologize for not compiling the photos earlier. Please advice the ID. Thank you so much!

    Cheers,
    Lumin Ong

  4. #14
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    Wow! What a mess!.

    If all three pix are of one individual then it is Baoris oceia.
    It may be that an occasional example of Baoris female have that tiny white spot in space 1b.

    Pix 1 Post 11, IDed as P. agna have the following.
    The left FW is damaged & this does'nt show in the other two pix in post 13.
    The tear appears more triangular whereas pix 2 & 3 is more squarish.

    Pix 2 & 3 post 13 looks similar but 3 looks very worn (& upper cellspot small) ,while 2 looks much better.

    P. agna can have reduced spots but the worse is probably one HW cellspot & two postdiscal ones.


    Perhaps you all have better eyes. If you are convinced there is only one individual then it is Baoris oceia.


    TL Seow: Cheers.

  5. #15
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    So sorry for the confusion and mess Hahaha Thank you so much for the ID, I've never encountered Baoris oceia before!

    Cheers,
    Lumin Ong

  6. #16
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    Dear Dr Seow,

    Requesting some ID confirmations and clarifications for my attempted IDs! All are shot at Ulu Sembawang. I apologize for any out-of-focus areas! iNaturalist photos have better resolution, my photos are usually quite large so I have to crop a lot

    1.Potanthus omaha or Potanthus ganda? The HW veins look mostly not dark-dusted other than a few obvious ones.
    photo_6_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173420556

    2.Caltoris cormasa female? Reduced FW spots and reddish tone?
    photo_2_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173787435

    3.Caltoris sp. or Baoris sp.? Not too sure about this one.
    photo_3_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpgphoto_8_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173787438

    4.Telicota colon? The yellow-orange of the FW spots stretch along the veins? Abdomen not pale as in T.linna
    photo_5_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpgphoto_1_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173787431

    5.Telicota colon? For the same reasons above!
    photo_4_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpgphoto_7_2023-07-20_00-28-33.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/173787432

    Thank you you so much in advance! Been getting more confident in attempting to ID these Skippers in the field thanks to your invaluable advice.

    Cheers,
    Lumin Ong

  7. #17
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    Post 16.

    1. Female Potanthus omaha.
    In a lightly marked P. ganda the veins would be fainter still.
    Pair P. ganda ,female on the right.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...854/large.jpeg


    2. Female Caltoris cormasa.

    Three species in Singapore have a prominent pale area on the antenna.

    C. cormasa is stated to have one cellspot (thus Fullstop Swift)
    Most in Singapore have two. FW spots are normally yellowish.
    Reddish tone. FW subapical spots often 3, small . Often strong contrast of FW & HW.
    Male & female.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TjKxWVHrQ...herHern_01.jpg
    https://www.butterflycircle.com/chec...obby%20Mun.jpg

    Caltoris bromus; FW subapical often two ,& large. FW & HW more uniform. Female HW often with 1-2 spots.
    Male & female.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/131436413
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/13664032

    Caltoris cahira : FW subapical often 2, & large.; HW dark chocolate.
    Female by Federick in Singapore, not in H.K.
    https://butterflieshk.files.wordpres...ris-cahira.jpg
    Below:First image is C. cahira female. 2nd image uncertain.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/125617950
    Male, Taiwan.
    https://content.eol.org/data/media/9..._nid_47137.jpg


    3. Female Baoris oceia. Note FW & HW are of the same dark brown. Antennae totally black.
    Most of the spots reduced here. (Usually only the male have much reduced spots).
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-zofygsdg7...oris+oceia.jpg


    4. Telicota besta.Male.
    Iding a Telicota based on the underside FW alone is usually a no no.

    T. besta male . base of space 2 shaded orange (as in T. colon);Good overlap between spot 3 & 4.
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-LJmOHOJs_...lt_male_02.jpg
    https://singapore.biodiversity.onlin...0056?imageId=2

    T. colon. Small overlap between spot 3 & 4. FW spots 4 & 5 are staggered out from spot 3.
    https://singapore.biodiversity.onlin...0057?imageId=1

    T. linna male FW base of space 2 not shaded orange. Underpart paler.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-wU0gNp51E...Horace-Tan.jpg

    Cephrenes trichopepla.
    FW band shaped like a pagoda; FW spot4 much larger than spot 5.
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-88j45tR9g...lt_Loke_01.jpg


    5. Telicota colon male.
    Most of the identifying marks on the FW are almost gone.
    Underside FW last 3 veinstripes long.
    https://singapore.biodiversity.onlin...doptera-000057


    TL Seow; Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 20-Jul-2023 at 07:23 AM.

  8. #18
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    Thank you Dr Seow!

  9. #19
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    Dear Dr Seow,

    Requesting ID for these 2 Skippers.

    1. Caltoris cormasa male? I do not see the pale area on the antennae but I'm quite sure of this ID.
    IMG_20230725_000552.jpgIMG_20230725_000617.jpg
    iNaturalist: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/174700676

    2. Caltoris or Baoris sp. I originally thought this was a Baoris sp. but upon closer inspection I do see the pale area on the antennae so I'm not too sure now.
    IMG_20230725_000710.jpgIMG_20230725_000655.jpgIMG_20230725_000638.jpg
    iNaturalist:https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/174700784

    Thank you so much in advance!

    Cheers,
    Lumin Ong

  10. #20
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    Both are Baoris presumably B. oceia males.

    The pale area on the antenna is very small mainly on the underside , & is not visible in most individuals.
    The male seem always to have reduced spotting in Singapore.

    It is extremely rare for a Caltoris like C. cormasa to have reduced spotting.

    Baoris male & female.
    Male with pale area on antenna, female with a pale patch on the HW cellend (diagnostic).
    https://www.butterflycircle.com/chec...hee%20Ming.jpg
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-0rwJjrQ_J...oris+oceia.jpg



    TL Seow: CHeers.
    PS. Baoris & Caltoris are very difficult & some misIDs are inevitable.

    Caltoris cormasa should show a contrast of the paler FW against the deeper HW; often 3 subapicals , noticeable pale area on the antenna.
    Worn examples.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/129275333
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/133060722
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/153141682

    Caltoris malaya have uniform rusty brown FW & HW; no cellspot; pale area on antenna weak.Female is yellower.
    Males.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/152815684
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147253164
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/133445751

    Baoris have a uniform greyer brown ,ground, male with more swept FW ;often a pale area on HW cellend ; much reduced spotting in the male.
    Example with a pale area on HW cellend.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/155151606
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/146519783
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/140637606
    Last edited by Psyche; 26-Jul-2023 at 01:12 AM.

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