Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11

Thread: An odd Abisara or simply A. abnormis

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    554

    Default An odd Abisara or simply A. abnormis

    The first three images are of the same Abisara sp. individual, photographed at Mae Ping, n. Thailand. At the time this was simply identified as A. abnormis. But looking at the images again the wide, and sharply angled lower discal line on the underwing could imply this could be A. latifasciata.

    Finding reliable images of A. latifasciaa on the web is limited.
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/Butt...-latifasciata/

    Is there a reliable way of separating these two from photos?

    The 4th attached image is a more usual A. abnormis from n. Thailand.

    1a. Unidentified Abisara
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Mae Ping 01.JPG

    1b. Unidentified Abisara
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Mae Ping 02.JPG

    1c. Unidentified Abisara
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Mae Ping 03.JPG

    2. A.abnormis from Omkoi
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Omkoi 03.JPG

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    6,868

    Default

    As far as I can see It is A. abnormis

    A. abnormis ;Both sexes upperside withFW discal band whitened ,narrow with veins darkened.
    Underside discal band narrow sharply defined .HW submarginal spots may be all black or spot 4 ^ 5 have some black shading.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...normis_403.png
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/Butt...8%B2%E0%B8%A2/

    A. latifasciata :Both sexes with FW discal band upper 1/2 broaden & whitened above, veins not darkened. Underside [discal band crenate, forming a series of scalloping margins.]Not Definitive
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/Butt...-latifasciata/

    A. bifasciata angulata.
    [Male with FW band not whitened on the upperside but does in the female.Band with diffuse margins, not crenate.] Clarification , The male have the FW band paler above.
    https://wingscales.com/Lycaenidae/Ab...ciata-angulata
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/Butt...8%A5%E0%B8%B2/
    http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expe...arabifasciata/


    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 20-Feb-2018 at 11:21 AM. Reason: error description.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    554

    Default

    Many thanks for the confirmation.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    6,868

    Default ID COrrection.

    Male Abisara bifasciata angulata.
    (Upperside is not that of A. abnormis)
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...sciata_403.png

    On the upperside the FW band in A. abnormis male is narrow & white, separated into spots.
    Underside band is similarly narrow.
    All the HW submarginal spots should be darkened to some extent in the male.

    This is correct as A. abnormis.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KyfFsINy8M...-%2B1A1982.jpg

    This is correct as A. bifasciata angulata.The website is vouched for by Yutaka.
    https://wingscales.com/Lycaenidae/Ab...ciata-angulata

    Upperside male A. bifasciata angulata & underside female, Thailand.
    https://wingscales.com/content/record/1843-1-6b9a5.jpg
    https://wingscales.com/content/record/1842-1-e2bac.jpg

    There are good description & images of A. abnormis , latifasciata ,& bifasciata angustlineata (not the ssp angulata)here.
    http://images.peabody.yale.edu/lepso...9-63-2-061.pdf

    The images below have some doubt since the HW submarginal spots are not all darkened. Looks correct though.
    1. image by Omkoi.
    2. https://www.thaibutterflies.com/Butt...8%B2%E0%B8%A2/

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 20-Feb-2018 at 11:25 AM. Reason: add. pix.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    554

    Default

    Many thanks for the detailed feedback.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    554

    Default

    Further, using the notes and images provided, I think this image that I currently have as A. abnormis, should actually be A. bifasciata. Would that be correct? From Mae Wa NP, Lampang, n Thailand.

    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Mae Wa 01.JPG

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    6,868

    Default

    Yes, I agree that this is A. bifasciata angulata.

    In going through the description of A. abnormis, here is Moore's original description in which he described a set taken in the Moulmein area of Myanmar.
    http://archive.org/stream/proceeding...e/532/mode/1up

    Moore stated that ' hindwing with a continuous marginal row of black conical white-bordered spots.'
    His examples of both sexes show this though one of the male & the female have spots 4 & 5 less black.
    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...normis_403.png

    Likewise the male in the Vietnam article have a complete series of black HW marginal spots though the female unfortunately have the HW abraded so spots 4 & 5 are very obscured.

    This female taken in Nam Phong Thailand is undoubtedly A. abnormis but I can't see any male shot.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KyfFsINy8M...-%2B1A1982.jpg

    I think all those males labelled as A. abnormis with narrow band but without a complete seris of HW black spots are incorrect.


    TL Seow: Cheers.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    6,868

    Default

    On 2nd thought I think your shot in post 6 is correct as female A. abnormis for the following reasons.
    1 .HW spot 5 appeared to be partially shaded, spot 4 looks abraded.
    2, Spots 6 & 7 are large, as large as spot 4 & 5. (in bifasciata these are relatively smaller)
    3. FW postdiscal band/line is strongly zigzag.
    4. The bit of upperside suggest a macular(spotted) band.

    Compare with the two confirmed females of A. abnormis & A. bifasciata.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-KyfFsINy8M...-%2B1A1982.jpg
    https://wingscales.com/content/record/1842-1-e2bac.jpg

    TL Seow:Cheers.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Thailand
    Posts
    554

    Default

    Interesting.

    See attached 5 images of 3 individuals showing narrow white band, none of which have a continuous line of black spots on the underwing. All look like males to me, so if potentially not abnormis what would they be?
    They appear to match abnormis here:
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/?s=abnormal+judy

    Specimen 1. Underside. Omkoi, nw Thailand
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Omkoi 01.JPG

    Specimen 1. Upperside. Omkoi, nw Thailand
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Omkoi 02.JPG

    Specimen 2. Underside. Omkoi, nw Thailand
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Omkoi 03.JPG

    Specimen 2. Upperside. Omkoi, nw Thailand
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Omkoi 04.JPG

    Specimen 3. Phu Khieo, ne Thailand.
    b3845 Abnormal Judy (Abisara abnormis) - Phu Khieo 01.JPG

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Malaysia
    Posts
    6,868

    Default

    Post 9.

    They are very difficult at the momemt.

    Specimen 1. This obviously can not be A. abnormis as it is stated in both articles that the male abnormis have a series of white spots on hte FW.
    The upperside ID'ed at once as A. bifasciata angulata.

    Specimen 2. The upperside suggest it could be a female A. abnormis , but the underside HW does not have spot 4 & 5 dark-shaded.
    The narrow FW band is similar to specimen 1.
    Coming from the same location it merely suggest it is the female of speciment 1.

    Specimen 3. Apart from the narrow white band which is divided by dark veins, there is no other suggestion it could be abnormis.
    A clearer view of the upperside may be helpful.
    Status is also uncertain here.

    There is so much uncertainty because of individual variations as well as wsf & dsf.
    Yutaka have not put out any images of these confusing species.

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 20-Feb-2018 at 10:32 PM. Reason: typo

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Join us