Shot this guy on my "backyard", about half the size of a 3 spots GY , managed to temporarily restrained it and took a shot of its upper forewings before setting him free.
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Shot this guy on my "backyard", about half the size of a 3 spots GY , managed to temporarily restrained it and took a shot of its upper forewings before setting him free.
My opinion is that this is still a Common Grass Yellow which has either lost its cell spots, or in a way aberrant in that it has no cell spots. The problem with these Yellows is that they are so common and variable, that no two specimens are exactly alike. Add on wear and tear and also aberrations, there are always curious specimens that turn up every now and then. I've seen "no-spot" Grass Yellows and have recorded a few in my 'museum' but they are more likely aberrations of more common species.
Note in the ID key, there is one other species that has the black border in space 1a and 1b sloping towards the base - E. lacteola. But on checking again, this is unlikely to be it cos of the totally absent cell spot, as well as the details on the border in spaces 2 and 3.
Just to further elaborate on why certain species are really difficult to ID accurately from field shots, here are two shots of an actual specimen of Eurema ada iona from the Q-Museum. ;P
This specimen was taken in Malaysia in the 90's. Check closely the characteristics and also C&P4's ID Key.
One of these days, I'll have to put the specimens side by side with the others so that the relative sizes can also be compared. The dimunitive size of this specimen is not apparent, unless a ruler is put to give some scale, or it is shot together with the other larger Grass Yellow specimens. This one is about 18mm wingspan.
For these lookalike species, a voucher specimen is almost critical for ID. On scientific accuracy, field shots are usually avoided. This was also the advice of the late Col John Eliot (of the C&P4 fame) and Dr Laurence Kirton, when asked to ID specimens.
Khew ,
Thanks for adding your expert comments!
I was confused by the lack of cell spot and the sloping of the black border in space 1a and 1b sloping towards the base like the E. lacteola.
Guess we will have to accept that amongst the yellows there are lots of aberrations .:bsmile:
Thanks for the E ada iona shot ..... now we have something to base on.
You're welcome :)
Having more people observing and recording differences in specimens also helps me rationalise some of the conclusions that I've made in the past - and I'm not claiming that I am always right either.
It also makes me test and challenge some of my own theories as well. So I find it useful that people like you and Horace often turn up really challenging ID samples. :sweat:
There are a few genuses that I would like to look at more closely, and if you guys are able to shoot more of these in the field, please do post and record them. Amongst these are of course the Hesperiidae like the Potanthus, Telicota and the brown buggers. Of course, without a voucher specimen, we would just go :hmmm:. Of the Lycaenidae would be the Arhopala, Miletus in particular.
One group which I have had a lot of trouble convincing myself on the IDs are the Mycalesis or Bush Browns. This is a very difficult group with lots of variations. Personally, I differ in my opinion of Steven Neo's conclusion of a specimen of Mycalesis perseoides perseoides that he IDed. However, we agreed to leave it in the checklist for the time being until we have more data to confirm.
So I'll need more help and field observations with these buggers mentioned above. Of course, our cat farmers have also helped in nailing down some of the IDs - which is another avenue to confirm the ID of some species - via their caterpillars and life histories.
Part II of Simi Yellow?
another specimen just shot with same characteristics but this time with one cell spot.*headache*:hmmm:
:bsmile:
Interesting find. Really small specimen of grass yellow.
Is E. lacteola lacteola supposed to be as small as shown?
One way to confirm the number of cell spots would be to breed the butterflies.
Horace
The problem with these Grass Yellows is that one cell spot doesn't mean that another one didn't exist as well. Take a close look at Plate 10 Figure 6 which shows E. lacteola lacteola. Doesn't seem to match. Unfortunately, C&P4 only shows one specimen, and no undersides.
What made you conclude that this is E. lacteoloa? :thinking: Would be interesting to share your views and observations.Quote:
Originally Posted by horace2264
Yes, that is usually the best way of confirming what the species is, since from a bred specimen, you would have a pristine one, and you can eliminate the uncertainty of wear and tear.Quote:
Originally Posted by horace2264
Perhaps it was my poor phrasing of the sentence as I did not conclude the ID as E. lacteola, and was simply trying to gather more information on this other species.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander
Horace
Oh... when you mentioned "as shown", I thought that you meant what Sunny posted. :)
I found pictures of the under and upper sides of E. lacteola atQuote:
Originally Posted by Commander
http://pick5.pick.uga.edu/mp/20p?see=I_JP/0138
but the underside shot shows two cell spots instead of one.:confused:
Horace
Let me state here again that all pictures posted here the butterfly was gently handled and released unharmed after the photos was quickly taken.
Any complaint to my treatment of the butterfly, in my quest in identifying the butterfly through this method, shall be my sole responsibility and has nothing to do whatsoever with any other members and The Management of ButterflyCircle
If you feel offended by my approach and want to make a complaint to the authority on my treatment of butterflies, to save you the trouble ,you can write to sunny.chir@gmail.com for my full personal particulars and address.
:cheers:
Strange. But I would depend more on C&P4's authority in the identification of these species of Eurema. The accuracy and reliability of the printed word is often taken more seriously than web-based postings, which can disappear overnight.
Hence my own take is that E. lacteola only has a single cell spot rather than two, as described in C&P4 and also WA Fleming's "Butterflies of West Malaysia and Singapore" Vol 1, 2nd Edition. (Scroll down the page to read about this book)
Quote:
Originally Posted by horace2264
I agree that the printed material should be taken more seriously than web-based postings. My only gripe with C&P4 is that given the great number of butterflies covered, it is sometimes frustrating for me to find the coverage for certain species is lacking in details or suffers from poor illustration.Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander
Horace
The series were captured on a single flowering Leea indica , they are of varying sizes , some are slghtly smaller than TSGY and others as small as those initially captured here on this thread.
You have :
No spot
one spot
Two spots
Recently planted host where these yellows are laying eggs.
The Host Plant
The no spot , one spot and two spots female were observed to be laying eggs on the host plant
Would be fun to breed these eggs and count their spots to prove C&P 4 not too accurate in counting spots.:bsmile: