Rapala dieneces?

Hi Dr Seow and Aaron, I encountered a group of (at least 5) dogfighting male Rapala yesterday. I assumed all were R. dieneces. They were ocherous underneath. These are the ones I tracked successfully.. Most of these shots are heavily cropped.

#1
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4600/...0662737f_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4600/...cb9c864e_c.jpg


#2
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4683/...dd77b589_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4687/...8821b9be_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4595/...a6ecda3b_c.jpg


#3 (no underside, unfortunately - but I noticed space 7 of the hindwing is not dark shaded but rather bright orange)
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4599/...8600f71d_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4587/...6e5a90e0_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4681/...5235244f_c.jpg


Thanks!!

#4
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4735/...e97f3dbb_c.jpg

Wonderful! You have confirmed the existence of Rapala damona in Singapore.

As you can see the underside is easily confused with that of Rapala suuffusa ,while the upperside is very similar to R. dieneces.


Rapala damona; Upperside orange -red. HW space 5, 6, & 7 red ie HW red except for a small central black area.
Note the last 3 (Post 1) shots show the right HW thru the torn FW . What appears to be a black bar on the HW is the lower part of the FW; the HW is mostly red except for the dark HW cell.
Underside deep ochreous ie deeper tawny brown than the other two.
FW postdiscal band strongly bent as in R. suffusa.
HW orange often with a thin black defining line .
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/83870001.html


Rapala suffusa; Upperside brownish red.
Underside paler, deep yellow to pale ochreous.
FW postdiscal band strongly bent.
Orange patch poorly defined & diffused.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/83850001.html
Bangladesh.
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YUwZ8Rubg...R%2BShihan.JPG
Singapore.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4188/3...7742bda1_c.jpg
https://alanowyong.files.wordpress.c...-001.jpg?w=604

Rapala dieneces.Upperside bright orange red. HW with large basal black area; space 5 & 6, only outer third red, space 7 wholly brown.
Underside lighter ochreous brown ,
FW postdiscal band straight.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/83880001.html
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-tMu5fvBQ80...sh-BeneTay.jpg
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/02_i...pperside.m.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Nq8JtCdenz...rlet+Flash.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-XfgDly7ApO...ed%2BFlash.jpg


TL Seow: Cheers.

What an amazing and timely discovery(just in time for xmas)

#1 is definitely damona as both the dorsal and ventral(ground colour and shape of post-discal band) are typical of damona . So are #3 and #4.

#2 looks different from the rest and is most likely dieneces from the less darkened veins on the dorsal hindwing(although this seems inconsistent) and the more yellowish ground colour and more scalloped post-discal band on the ventral surface.

I think this sequence shows the differences between these two similar spp. very nicely and will be very useful for spotting more damona in the future.

There is one more very rare species, Rapala cowani, whose type locality is Singapore but it's most likely extinct now, even though there is a very slim chance that it's still lurking in the mangroves.

I was actually shown Rapala cowani taken in Chek Jawa , Pulau Ubin, so its existence is not in doubt.


There are probably other species in Singapore.
Of interest is this labelled as R. dieneces.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...0Ben%20Jin.jpg
The fairly straight postdiscal band (slanted) in HW space 1b indicates either iarbus or manea.

R. iarbus is out of the picture as it is paler grey & the FW cilia orange-edged.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...d%20Flash).JPG

It appeared to be R. manea with a strongly bent FW band.
R. manea males in Singapore.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/--_OcJrIvZG...ea_chozeba.png
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-E1ejR6hnVR...late-Flash.jpg

The aapearance is suggestive of Rapala scintilla.
http://nlliew66butterflies.blogspot....niceville.html
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/83920001.html

TL Seow; Cheers.

A Christmas present for Jonathan!

The broken forewing is actually useful in this case to show the upperside on the hindwing up to space 7. Otherwise it would have been quite challenging to separate this fella from the R. dieneces

Well done, Jonathan!

Well done, Jonathan. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Your patience and hardwork in getting the multiple upperside shots pay off handsomely.


Dr Seow,
Please take a look at this shot taken about 3 years ago, which I identified as Rapala dieneces then?
Attachment 24919

It can be very tough, Horace.

Fleming said of R.damona..
Male darker shade of brown, almost purplish than suffusa & dieneces. Underwside FW note postdiscal band curved in at upper end. Underside HW orange area over tornal spot well marked.
Note in all of Jonathan's examples the orange is rather vague & not well marked with the black line.

Your individual is rather worn & the colour faded, but it does seem to have that sort of general colouration.
The FW band is a little too straight though.
I would leave it as dieneces for the momemt.

Here is another which I have identified as suffusa but does not seem quite right.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-l5DfphT9on...+dieneces).jpg

This is an undoubted R. dieneces male.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-ca3djKvy5N...rlet+Flash.jpg

This one labelled as suffusa could be R. damona.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/2/1070/1...cc7bf46be7.jpg

Sihan's posting of upperside & underside of suffusa from Bangladesh has allow this to be confirmed as R. suffusa.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4188/3...7742bda1_c.jpg
This below has to be correct as R. suffusa male.
https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7376/9...452d3eda_b.jpg

TL Seow: Cheers.

Thanks, Dr Seow for the detailed explanation. :)

I notice that in many examples of damona that the post-discal band beside the blue tornal spot on the hindwing is slightly less curved or protruding than in dieneces. Based on this, and other features Dr Seow has mentioned in the preceding posts, one can rather confidently say that the one in post #10 is also damona. (Again, this method of distinguishing them may seem contentious)

I still find that the most reliable character in damona is that the individual striae which make up the post-discal band are much straighter than the scalloped ones in dieneces (compare Jonathan's with Horace's)

I'm ignoring the dorsals as the differences are obvious but also because i feel that most of us would rarely have the luxury of getting a good view of dorsals in the field and so, while most differences are in the dorsals, we should aim to find differences in the more frequently observed ventrals as that would be far more useful in practice.

Quote:

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I still find that the most reliable character in damona is that the individual striae which make up the post-discal band are much straighter than the scalloped ones in dieneces

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I didn't notice this. I'll be going back to get more shots and look out for that.

I think in R. damona, compared to R. dieneces, the post discal band appears to be 'jabbing' into the blue tornal spot. In examples of R. dieneces the is often more space between the band and the spot.

Having compare numerous examples of what was thought to be dieneces or suffusa in the past with Jonanthan's current shots of proven R. damona male I find there is way too many variations in each species.

The only consistencies in R. damona male appear to be .
1. Deeper ochreous orange brown colour .
2. FW postdiscal curved in at the top, mostly roughly parallel to termen ,& slightly nearer termen than cellend.

R. dieneces male.
1. Mostly lighter brown,to ochreous brown.
2. FW band mostly straight or lightly curved , not parallel to termen & slightly nearer cellend than the termen.


R. suffusa male ; light ochreous to deep chrome yellow.
FW band mostly parallel to termen ,roughly midway between termen & cellend, strongly bent to the costa.

TL Seow: Cheers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Psyche

The only consistencies in R. damona male appear to be .
1. Deeper ochreous orange brown colour .
2. FW postdiscal curved in at the top, mostly roughly parallel to termen ,& slightly nearer termen than cellend.

R. dieneces male.
1. Mostly lighter brown,to ochreous brown.
2. FW band mostly straight or lightly curved , not parallel to termen & slightly nearer cellend than the termen.

---

This is why i suspected that Jonathan's shot #2 in the first post is should actually be dieneces

What exactly does Fleming mean by "upper end"? I take it to be "curved from below the same vein as the cell streak"... because that's what it looks like

Accidentally deleted a previous post so I'm re-posting the shots here along with 2 shots taken today. I've noticed the ground colour is quite variable too. The more worn specimens were much paler, resembling R. dieneces closely. Some pristine ones were paler too. I'll post them soon.

#1
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4687/...9e6a2623_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4681/...3c4155a9_c.jpg


#2
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4661/...670cd1cd_c.jpg

https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4601/...e5aa53f2_c.jpg

Quote:

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Originally Posted by atronox

This is why i suspected that Jonathan's shot #2 in the first post is should actually be dieneces

What exactly does Fleming mean by "upper end"? I take it to be "curved from below the same vein as the cell streak"... because that's what it looks like

---

The statement just means the upper end of the FW band is set further in on the costa due to a curve in the upper part of the band.

Jonanthan's shot 2 is R. damona.

The upperside shot shows the FW patch with a strong right-angled notch on its lower margin more characteristic of R. danona .
See Fleming L357.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4/83870001.html

More often in R. dieneces the HW postdiscal band is fairly regular.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_pXOLUdZLp...rlet+Flash.jpg
https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...peg?1493295281

The irregularity of the HW seem only useful in R. tara which is often confused with suffusa up north.

TL Seow: Cheers.

PS. Whether the FW band is nearer termen or cellend is also irrelevant , as Jonathan 's latest two shots show both possibilities.

PS2. it is necessary to see how the female damona looks. In the book it looks very similar to suffusa but more ochreous than yellow.
The postdiscal band in space 1b is typically a low curve or convex & the speckled patch often large (both remarked upon by Jonathan & Aaron) but exceptions occur.
eg C&P4 shows a female dieneces with a large speckled patch (P50/35) and a female damona with a small speckled patch although the band is a low curve (P51/2).

Thanks for all the clarifications Dr Seow. Seems like it can be quite variable even on such a small island like Singapore where there are few microhabitats