Isma bononia?

I have some problem to ID properly this Hesperiidae I've found in my last poor trip at Krung Ching Waterall (Nakhon Si Thammarat-TH)

http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3714/1...c68b13a6_c.jpg
Isma sp.

It looks to me the same of this, ID as Isma umbrosa umbrosa, but I have some doubt now on the old ID:

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3665/8...acc7e087_c.jpg
Isma umbrosa umbrosa

My bet is on Isma bononia bononia, see pics from Les (Taman Negara-MY) here:

http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expe...e/ismabononia/

or Isma bononoides:

http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expe...smabononoides/

The Isma species are partcularly hard to ID from pix.
They are also very variable in spotting.
Just from part of the underside it is actually impossible to tell until we have some valid examples for references.

Their IDs are more misses than hits.

However, I think both Les' pix are I. bononiodes. (I know I ID'ed them.)
This because I. bononia have the FW spots whitish & the Abdomen unbanded.
I. bononiodes have the spots yellow & the abdomen banded.

I think you may have two species there though it is hard to tell.
Until it can be correctly ID'ed & labelled & stored for future reference, all Isma IDs are tentative.
Comparing with wrongly ID'ed pix just compound the confusion later.

TL Seow:cheers:

Here are the reasons why I think pix 1 could be Isma damocles.
1. Larger size with sharper FW.
2. Large upper FW cellspot & large HW spots.
3. Ground colour more ferruginous (rusty-brown).
4. Abdominal bands go round through the underside.

Pix 2 was Id'ed as Isma umbrosa based on the following.
1. More compact shape & smaller size.
2. Visible spots fairly similar as in I. damocles.
3. Ground colour greyish brown.
4. Abdominal bands do not go round the underside.

All of the reasons may not be entirely valid.

Reliable websites also tend to get their IDs wrong.
The pix below should probably be I. feralia.
This is because spot 2 (largest on the FW) is vertically elongate , whereas it is quadrate(squarish) in both sexes of I. umbrosa.
http://www.boldsystems.org/index.php...e?taxid=353256

TL Seow:cheers:
PS. Les' images of I. bononia was based on C&P4's statement that the cellspots are prominent (while that for bononiodes are small) & substantiated by the book's images.
Unfortunately this contradict the yellow spot colour(ambiguous in image 1) & abdominal bands, making it rather confusing.
Underside HW colour & pattern also seems to match that of bononia especially the female.
(Note,I am trying to recall how the ID of I. bononia was first made.)

Thank you Dr. Seow for your help.

I know Isma are not easy to separate.

I will go again soon over there and I hope to see them again and try to get better shots, of the upperside too.

Sorry, I have not joined in the discussion before, I have been in N. Thailand.

It is interesting to note that Kimura in Butterflies of Thailand, Volume 1 (2012) contradicts C&P4 regarding the difference between I. bononia and I. bononoides in that he says the spots in the former are yellowish, and those of the latter are almost white. He also states that the only two records (from 1991) of I. bononoides are lacking collecting data and that there are no illustrations, and as such, the species needs to be reconfirmed as present in Thailand.

I did a review on these two species.
Fleming have good upperside & underside of these two species & they support that of C&P4.

These two are distinctive in that the two cellspots (in the male) are in line with the big spot in space 2.
The spots are yellow in bononoides & whitish in bononia.
Moreover the underside colour are quite different ,ferruginous in bononoides , olive/greenish ochre in bononia.

There is no doubt with this I. bononoides.
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expe...smabononoides/

There is also no doubt with the female I. bononia from Nakhon Si Thammarat; greenish ochre ground, brownish grey abdomen.
However, there is doubt with the male from Taman Negara.
Upperside suggest I. bononia; large cellspots , spot colour ambiguous at best.
The underside is ferruginous & the abdomen is strongly banded (compare with the female).
The male has to be I. bononoides.
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expe...e/ismabononia/

TL Seow:cheers:

Thank you. I will amend the pages accordingly. Was the review published and if so, where? I would like a copy, hopefully I would be able to download it online.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Painted Jezebel

Thank you. I will amend the pages accordingly. Was the review published and if so, where? I would like a copy, hopefully I would be able to download it online.

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I meant I did the review , not a piblished one.:)

TL Seow:cheers:

Reviving an old thread for a new dubious record, from Betong, Yala, South Thailand:

https://c5.staticflickr.com/1/317/31...f302ebf1_c.jpg
Isma sp.


Could it be Isma bonomia?

Post 9.

It is definitely not Isma bononoides .

Female.
Abdomen fully banded .Large upper FW cellspot indicating two large cellspot.
HW medium brown.

It Is the female of Isma damocles. less likely the female of I.guttiliferawhich have the upper cellspot smaller.

I. damocles /Abdomen fully banded; Two large cellspot white. Underside ferruginous. Female have the HW spots usually absent.
http://m2.i.pbase.com/g9/25/686825/2...2.PsPV5C2B.jpg

Isma guttilifera. similar ; FW spot 2 is more in line with the two cellspot. Underside ferruginous.
http://archive.org/stream/transactio.../n376/mode/1up

Isma bononia. Abdomen not banded beneath; Underside ochreous/golden yellow; FW spots white or whitish.: FW spot2 & 3 with small overlap.
This is correct although the FW spots are buff ?loss of scales . yellow underside & small overlap of FW spot 2 & 3 confirmed ID.
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expe...e/ismabononia/
Male Fig 38
http://archive.org/stream/journalofb.../n442/mode/1up
Female fig 75 & 76.
http://archive.org/stream/illustrati.../n231/mode/1up

I. bononoides ; FW spots distinctly yellowish ;FW spot 2 & 3 with large overlap; Underside ferruginous ie dull reddisn brown; abdomen banded beneath.

TL Seow: Cheers.

Thank you :cheers: