Three shots here are of the same specimen that I shot on 13 Nov at NSPL. The size of a typical Telicota species but I am not able to id it with sufficient confidence.
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Three shots here are of the same specimen that I shot on 13 Nov at NSPL. The size of a typical Telicota species but I am not able to id it with sufficient confidence.
Telicota besta bina male
Of the 3 Singapore spp, the male of T. colon is readily IDd by the extended orange vein streaks. T. augias male have the underside deep-shaded rendering the spots undiscernable; also the black area is smaller and narrower.
TL Seow
Having made a close study of the undersides of the males of the 3 Singaporean species, I will like to make a retraction of my previous statement. This is T augias male.
In T. augias male the overlap between spot 4&5 and Spot3 below is half or more whereas in the other two it is much less or hardly. Additionally T. colon may have the vein-streak of spot 3 visible.
I did notice a number of errors with the pics in the checklist of all 3 species.
TL Seow
Thanks for the id, Mr Seow.
Shot this along a forest fringe before UPR - a Caltoris sp ?
Salient features : 3 subapical (or subcostal) spots ; 2 cell spots ; spots in space 3 & 4 quadrate. Hindwing unmarked dark brown with a purplish tone.
The Pelopidas group of genera are extremely similar and difficult to ID. However the other local (Singapore) species have either less spotting, hindwing with spots , marks or shades of other colour.
This leaves the female of Caltoris cormasa as a good match. I am guessing it is this species. It is also appears to be rather common. Perhaps someone who have been taking regular pictures of these little brownies have a better insight and can comment on it.
TL Seow:cheers:
Thanks Mr Seow.
At least I got the genus correct.
Two more "problematic" shots - sorry to trouble Mr Seow again.
1. Shot at Seletar Wasteland
2. Shot at Pasir Ris Park
Look like both are the same species ?
Pic 1 : single spot in space 6;NO UPPER CELL-SPOT; hindwing dark brown
Pic 2 : SINGLE UPPER CELL-SPOT seen ;hindwing light brown.(the Orion's belt is an artefact)
The following genera have been eliminated by various comparison : Idmon, Isma, Hyarotis, Quedara, Zela , Matapa. Baoris is the genus in which there may be great reduction in the spotting. B. peninclllata (which is similar to B. oceia) is eliminated because it is only recorded in Kedawi. ID is only a certainty by genitalia examination.
However, the key states:
B. farri : Forewing USUALLY fully spotted in male,& always fully spotted in the female. Underside hindwing silky brown.
B. oceia :male forewing the spot in space 8 usually,& the UPPER CELL-SPOT,OFTEN, OBSOLETE; underside faintly ochreous.
Based on the above key. Pic 1 should be B. oceia and Pic 2 should be B. farri
TL Seow:cheers:
On a second review, pic 2 is probably correct, since there are actually a series of faint spots on the forewing, but pic 1 could very well be C. cormasa with less spotting.
As Khew once mentioned in another thread, you could choose a B or C , and no-one's the wiser. I fully concur with that.
TL Seow:cheers: :cheers:
Though I 'll check the "bible" on how to differentiate the Pelopidas group of Genera. I didnt know it was that easy
Mid tibiae spined : Baoris , Pelopidas
Mid tibiae not spined : Borbo, Caltoris, Polytremis, Parnara
( mid tibiae : What C&P4 meant are just tibiae(singular-tibia), the middle section of an insect's leg consisting of femur(thigh), tibia(shin) and a 5-segmented tarsus(foot). )
All 3 pics show spines on the mid tibiae and are Baoris ( Pelopidas have spots on the hindwing underside)
Post 5 pic is B. farri with a full complement of spots.
Post 8 pic 1 should be B. oceia.
Post 8 pic 2 should be B. farri with reduced spotting.(underside colour is also close to that of post 5 pic.)
TL Seow:cheers: :jumjoy:
( A correction : I have removed the hyphen from the word 'mid-tbiae' as per C&P4. )
Many thanks Mr Seow.
I am yet to figure out what exactly you have mentioned in your last post - your comments are really good for everyone here to think and learn.
Tumpang Federick's thread.
What's your take on this one, Seow? Also another Baoris?
Yes, and from the paler brown sheen and the single upper cell spot that can be seen, this is Baoris farri. (genitalia confirmation is I feel unnecessary as the difficulty is seperating B. oceia from the Kedawi B. penicillata.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Commander
(Note : the word mid tbiae is misleading. It just means the 'middle' tibiae. The spines are found MAINLY on the LOWER ENDS of all the tibiae -see C&P4's drawing of the leg of Pelopidas. Baoris's mid tibiae are described as heavily spined - meaning it is more spiny than Pelopidas )
( Sorry about the hyphen in 'mid-tibiae', Khew. That was my mistake, not C&P4's. I have corrected my earlier post. )
Life is certainly going to be a lot easier from now on.
TL Seow:cheers:
(A correction: Pelopidas' mid tibiae are also described as heavily spined. So they are both equally spiny. )
Thanks for all this info, Seow. When given with pictures, it makes it so much easier to understand. Now to revisit all my LBJs!:sweat: Wonder if I will find anything hidden in an incorrect folder?
Thank you, Les,
I will now have to eat much of my words in many previous postings. Ah, well, as they say, live and learn.
I realised that those not used to scientific terminology may still be confused, so I thought I will reword the whole thing simply thus:
If you can see SPINES on the LEGS,
It can ONLY be BAORIS OR PELOPIDAS.
It is NOT CALTORIS or any of the other genera.
TL SEow:cheers:
After scrutinising the legs of a large number of SWIFTS on the net and BC's Checklist, I have come to a realisation. Houston! We have a Problem !
All have spined legs. They are basically the same in that the fore-legs are unspined, the mid-legs have spines on the tibial ends, and the hind-legs have 2 sets, at the tibial ends, and midway on the shafts.
The assumption that only Baoris and Pelopidas have spined legs have now been shot to bits.
It seems that the mid tibial spines referred to, are fine spines on the shaft of the tibia of the mid-leg, not the coarse ones readily seen by the eyes. These fine spines will only be apparent with perfect focus on the mid-legs. C&P4's text does not provide any clarification on these spines.
Sorry to those who may have recaptioned their photo album, and those who might have experienced a mental shutdown from my confusing postings. I certainly did not expect such ambiguity from C&P4. However, do bear in mind that the keys were constructed for collectors with a specimen in hand.
This is an on-going learning experience. I can see that the legs might offer some assistance in ID, since there are stout, thin, furry and very spikey ones. But until they can be matched correctly, this is a no-show.
TL Seow:cheers:
Luckily I can't understand all of these. Else I will be more confused :bsmile: :bsmile: :bsmile:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psyche
It means that we have to tweak some of the IDs again, as the basic key to the various genera is now "shot to bits" like Seow said.Quote:
Originally Posted by Caveman
I was also discussing with Horace, and was about to ask Seow for his opinion about it, when he posted this revelation last night. Those species for which we have a fair bit of certainty, due to the early stages documentation, particularly of the Caltoris, I note that the specimens do have spined legs as well.
Those of you who want to know what we are discussing, refer to page 385 of C&P4 where the table of ID keys show the features for the different genus. I also checked the definition of mid-tibiae, and it does appear that some entomologists refer to the parts between the joints of the legs as "mid". An example, although not of lepidoptera, can be found here. This Australian article shows the difference between two species based on the ventral hair fringe on the mid-tibiae of the legs of some Hemiptera.
Seow's point about the spines will still be applicable where the shots clearly show spines along the mid-tibiae of the legs of the skippers. At least it will help eliminate certain genera to a certain extent, but can be used as one of the diagnostic criteria to narrow down the ID of a species.
Two different skippers (1st two shots and last two shots are the same specimen) were shot at Lornie Trail last week. I guess both are
Potanthus omaha omaha ?
They do fit the omaha mantra 'small size, darkened veins'.
:cheers:
Need confirmation of the ids below, shot at TPTP.
#1 and #2 : Cephrene trichopepla (Yellow Palm Dart) ?
#3 : Pelopidas mathias mathias (Small Branded Swift)
Both are correct.
C. trichopepla: upper with vein-stripes (like T. colon); forewing underside with poorly contrasted spots;hindwing with black spot in space 6.
P. mathias: underside grey-shaded; hindwing with a cell spot. (Note postdiscal spots here in spaces 2, 3, 4, 6, & 7.)
Tl Seow:cheers:
Thanks Seow for your confirmation
One more skipper for you to think about.
The size is bigger than the P. omaha (Lesser Dart)
I id it as Potanthus trachala tytleri (Detached Dart) ?
Right again, but this one is an eye-opener as it is like P. serina esp the first pic. The 2 crescentic spots in space 2 & 3, and the narrow spot (cut by a fold) in space 1b ID it.
TL Seow:cheers:
Seow, what about this ? Two shots of the same specimen taken at Lornie Trail this morning.
Polytremis lubricans( Contiguous Swift.)
Note twin cellspots touching; Underside hindwing have faint spots in space 2, 4, & 5; The rich ochrreous brown colour on the underside is typical of this species too.
TL Seow:cheers:
Two different species were shot along a reservoir edge.
1. Telicota but which one ? - I hope I am right to rule out T. besta bina and T.augias
2. Third shot - Oriens gola pseudolus (Common Dartlet)
The abdominal tip and the black 'hole' in the orange upperside indicates a female. T. colon & T. besta are eliminated as the females have the underside greenish ochreous.
The greater amount of orange on the upperside costal area and the faintly ( may be stretching the imagination a bit ) darkened veins on the hindwing band suggest this is T. augias female.
You may have another winner in your blog http://peacockroyal.blogspot.com/200...1_archive.html .
The dark skipper is not Baoris; ( too dark; probably too small; looks too slender; greyish legs ).
It is probably the Dark Swift (Caltoris cahira).Note matching 2 cell-spots. From the net the Colon Swift ( C. bromus ) is also confusingly dark.
( BTW the dart in pic 1&2 is P. trachala. Note dark spots/smudges along band ).
TL Seow:cheers:
Polytremis
chers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock Royal
Federick, those are excellent shots of the skippers. It is also great to see the identification info from Seow.
Thanks David
Shot at USR - all above my eye level.
#1 and #2 - same individual - :hmmm:
#3 shot at another location but nearby. :hmmm:
Hey, nice shooting. Slightly different from the norm, but it works nicely. Beautifully saturated images. William
Thanks William - they look "strange" to me so I decided to take a few shots from far.
4 more shots - I think first 3 shots are Polytremis lubricans lubricans (Contiguous Swift) ?
#1 and #2 same specimen.
#4 Telicota besta bina
Your first two shots are not Polytremis.Its something else.
Third shot of the mating pair could be
Polytremis.http://theskippersofkerala.blogspot....h?q=Polytremis
cheers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peacock Royal
Shots in the previous post are of course Oriens gola.
Agreed the mating pair are Polytremis lubricans.Quote:
Originally Posted by kaleshs2002in
The male (L) have a rich ochreous brown colour while the female is lighter. The female's big upper spot can just be seen
It is noteworthy that the pair here have very few spots on the hindwing (2 in space 4 & 5).
The Telicota should be T. augias. T. besta has yellower ground colour and the veins across the band faintly darkened.
( I get caught by the colour change on the monitor screen when I flip up (yellow) or down (orange) as was the case in Saletara/A. nero episode. )
Federick, it looks like you struck a winner.
1 & 2 .It should be Parnara ganga
Not the unusual short and whitish antennae.
Hindwing underside with 3 faint spots in space 2, 3, & 4.; ground colour ochreous brown.
Faint spot in forewing cell.
Large spot in space 2 square-shaped, small spot in space 3 longish. (in P. bada the small spot is also quadrate. )
Upperside dark greyish without golden sheen.
TL Seow:cheers:
Thanks Seow for the ids.
I should have been more observant to notice the whitish and short antennae of the Parnara ganga
Here is another shot.
Two shots take at Lornie Trail.
1. Taractrocera archias quinta
2. Contiguous Swift (Polytremis lubricans lubricans)
No sign of Parnara ganga - will continue to hunt for it.
A bit lazy to do a thorough check on the ids, sorry, have to trouble Seow again.
1, 2 and 3 : same specimen - Look like Potanthus omaha omaha but getting suspicious !!
4 : Which Telicota ?
5. Another Telicota species ?
1, 2 & 3 are P. omaha.
4 should be T. augias female.
Note broad forewing indicating female; orangey colour. Both besta & colon females have a greenish yellow underside.
5. You have found P. ganda again.
Abdominal tip indicates female. Similar to omaha, but veins not darkened across the hindwing band.
(correction : This is T. augias.)
TL Seow:cheers: