Black Rose

[Commander]

Whilst doing the final draft for the Guidebook, I wanted to make references to the subspecies of the Common Rose - Pachliopta aristolochiae and the suspected subspecies antiphus which we call the "Black Rose".

However, after doing a bit more literature research at the latest lepidoptera website, there appears to have been some updates to this subspecies. There is only ssp antiphulus and there is a separate species under Pachliopta antiphus. However, most of these websites are without photos.

Has anyone done any research on this to find out what is the name of the subspecies Black Rose that we find here in Singapore with regularity? :hmmm:

[atronox]

The most complete list of Pachliopta spp. (with pics) is the one by Bernard d' Abrera(1981) with all the spp described during that time.
I dun rmb ssp antiphulus but current taxonomics may be different from then.

[Grass Demon]

When I first observed the Black Rose, my initial thought:hmmm: was that it was an aberration as I had not seen it in my many years of surveys. Then as the years pass, they occur more and more frequently and always in the same locations where Pachliopta aristolochiae asteris occurs. With this I tend to believe :thinking: that this is another form of asteris. Whatever it is, can our cat farmers do some captive breeding to throw some light on the black mystery?

[Silverstreak]

Both Roses have been bred from egg.

http://www.butterflycircle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9546&highlight=common+rose

http://www.butterflycircle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5106&highlight=Rose


Perhaps an initial comparison of the various instars could be made.


:cheers:

[Grass Demon]

More important is who the parents are. If we can collect the eggs of a White or Black Rose, breed them and if they turn out to be of opposite colour then the form theory is correct.

Other than that we need to captive breed a pair of Black and White (first make sure the female is a virgin). If they mate, it will be one step forward, lay eggs, 2 steps and if the eggs hatch and grow into adults:jumjoy: , we can then make our conclusion.

[Silverstreak]

Steven,

That is a more scientific and conclusive approach as suggested.:)


Anthony and Liyana,

Can the HortPark enclosure support this project?

Since both Roses are present at Hortpark and the staffs have successfully bred a few batches.


:)

[Grass Demon]

The results of what I described are only indicative that the Black Rose is a -form of asteris. To be conclusive, offsprings of a differnt colour from the parents, or better still, a mix of both black and white offsprings result from parents of only one colour confirms the theory.

Confused:hmmm: ?

[Silverstreak]

asteris Form confirmation matrix

Level I Confirmation


Egg(s) from Black Rose

1. Adult(s) raised Black Rose ==Negative

2. Adult raised white Rose ==Positive

3 Mixture of Black and white Rose ==Positve


Egg(s) from White Rose

1.Adult(s) raised White Rose ==Negative

2.Adult raised Black Rose ==Positive

3 Mixture of Black and White Rose ==Positive


Level II Confirmation

Virgin Adults of White and Black Rose from Part I mate == Postive

Offspring from B/W rose union.......Be it all white or all Black or a mixture of Black and White Rose ==Positive



.
:cheers:

[Grass Demon]

Until then, we have to wait before we :cheers:

[Commander]

Still a lot of work to do before those conclusions can be validated.

Anthony and Liyana still keeping very quiet after Sunny's suggestion. :bsmile:

A search in Markku Savela's (http://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/papilionoidea/papilionidae/papilioninae/atrophaneura/index.html) site turned out no ssp antiphus for the Common Rose. There is a separate species antiphus though. Further searches on the Internet turned up more confusion.

It's one of the reasons why I've not added this "subspecies" of the Common Rose in the official checklist thus far. So far, we have only 3 recorded subspecies - Jacintha Eggfly, Autumn Leaf (ssp pratipa) and Knight (ssp malayana)

[Branded Imperial]

Anthony and Liyana,

Can the HortPark enclosure support this project?

Since both Roses are present at Hortpark and the staffs have successfully bred a few batches.


:)

Sure. Both of us are currently busy with work and preparing for exams. We'll start after our exams are over, early may.

[Great Mormon]

Sure. Both of us are currently busy with work and preparing for exams. We'll start after our exams are over, early may.

Make that mid may for me :P

Currently we do not have any Black Roses in the vicinity.

But we will try to do some captive breeding and do the experiment once my exams are over and once I've located the female BR laying eggs.