Jamides virgulatus nisanca Lookalike ... but not?

[butterfly_effect]

I found this butterfly. And noticed that it didn't look very regular. The yellow area on its hindwing was noticeable from far because the area was so large.

I can't find a match on the checklist and the closest I came to in C&P4 was the Jamides virgulatus nisanca. But if you look closely, the nisanca's yellow area is broken towards the bottom but the butterfly's is unbroken.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2679/4352582343_d393bfc9dd.jpg

Close up
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4011/4353328768_0b55a71316.jpg

From C&P4
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4037/4353328958_520dc758b2.jpg

Anybody seen this before? Anybody have any idea what it could be? Also let me know if you have not seen it before.

Thanks.

[butterfly_effect]

Also, the topside of the butterfly looks very much like the female topside of the nisanca in C&P4

[Silverstreak]

Ellen,

Do you have shots of the top side?

[butterfly_effect]

no i could not get any... Unfortunately. :(

[Silverstreak]

It is not a Jamides elpis pseudelpis(Glistening Caerulean) . Marking looks quite close to Jamides alecto ageladas (The Metallic Caerulean) except with larger yellow patch. Any Torch Ginger around the area you shot it ?

Two other Jamides species that has such large tornal yellow patch are J. sekii and J.pura.

[butterfly_effect]

hmmm... No torch ginger around. Shucks. I will have to go back there to get the topside if its critical. Hopefully i will be able to see it again.

[Painted Jezebel]

It does look like a J. virgulatus to me. Don't worry about the broken tornal marking, some minor variation is always possible.

[butterfly_effect]

Les, it would be great if it was! :)

I found a J. pura online... it doesn't look similar...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2783/4353807948_a8cc2fca27_o.jpg
I can't find a J. sekii anywhere to compare tho.. the old threads for search "sekii" and search "pura" show images which are not displayed ("X")

I will go back and see if I can encounter it again and at least get a bad shot of the upperside. It doesn't show off its uppersides when at rest. And having seen it the first time, I don't know if there's a certain time of the day when it does.

[butterfly_effect]

Oh... and if it really is a new species and not recorded in Singapore before, what do we do next?

Must we get a voucher specimen? And then who do we get to verify? What's the "standard operating procedures" like? :)

[Silverstreak]

For reference on J. pura and J.sekii captured from Lycaenidae from the Philippines by Takanami & Seki (http://www.asahi-net.or.jp/~EY4Y-TKNM/Jamides-Phil/Jamides-Phil.html)

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/Schir/J-Pura-and-sekii.jpg

and

wakimedia.org on J.virgulatus (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Category:Jamides_virgulatus) from Brunei Not certain of reliability of this post though


http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d156/Schir/SNAG_Program-0001-1.jpg


Will need shots both male and female of upper and lower for further comparative study .

[horace2264]

One can rule out J. pura as the species in question has the post-discal band on the forewing beneath completely dislocated at vein 3 (hence this species belongs to the elpis sub-group). J. pura, just like, J. celeno, belongs to the celeno sub-group, which has the post-discal band on the forewing beneath continuous from vein 3 to vein 7.

[Wanderer]

does look at like a sekii to me.

[Commander]

Good debate going on, and how each of us view the details differently. The call to attention of the larger than usual tornal spot tends to distract from the usual identifiers of Jamides. Horace put things in perspective by eliminating the celeno sub-group.

Taking a closer look at the pair of basal and sub-basal lines on the hindwings (that's the two lines closest to the body of the butt), the species in question differs significantly from virgulatus in C&P4's plate, which has these lines generally unbroken.

It cannot be sekii based on the upperside of the male, which is described as "purple blue" and with forewing border a thread. However, the reference is that shown from Palawan and may be a different subspecies.

I'm inclined to think that Sunny's first gut-feeling of this specimen being closer to J alecto is correct. There are still variations from the pics of alecto but that is one of the major difficulties of trying to ID these lookalikes from a field shot and without the benefit of seeing the upperside of the butterfly.

[Silverstreak]

something to mull over in the long weekend..... will be heading north shortly, be back only late tomolo nite.:)

can cross out J pura from the forewing marking....

[butterfly_effect]

I can see what Horace means from the comparison that Uncle Sunny has put up.

[Commander]

Thanks Sunny. The hindwing markings of alecto are very similar and a good match, compared to the other two.

[Wanderer]

yes. now i can see that its not a skeii :P

but for alecto, the horizontal connecting line in space 2 (?) (not very good at this yet...need to work hard) seems quite different from the UFO.

[atronox]

Ellen, the so called "pura" u found online seems more like a malaccanus to me.xD
I agree that alecto and virgulatus are very similar and C&P4 says the only means of distinguishing are by size and "neatness" of markings.
There are many other interesting spp that can be found on wikispecies, but much of it is not updated.

[Silverstreak]

There is a healthy change in mind-set of the forum...:)

I remember 3-4 years back whenever I put up an unfamiliar Jamides or Nacaduba for ID, it used to be everyone keeping quiet...... and when asked why? The answer was: Gee!! Take of look at C&P 4 on the two species ! There are so many of them!! You can go and try and ID them!!!;P

We are improving as we prod along. Nowadays there is active discussion and suggestions on such topics . Perhaps after some recent rediscovery like the J. elpis , J alecto and Nacaduba practolus odon; Nacaduba angusta kerriana ; Nacaduba sanaya elioti and they have pricked us that there might be more to be IDed out there.

The Jamides is a difficult species to ID from a single field shot. Their markings are nitemarish to differentiate. To have any chance of a positive ID, one need to have clear shots of both upper and lower of the male and female. Some of them are so close in underside marking that positive ID could only be done on the slight difference in the upper wing margin marking of the male and/or female.

There are around 64 species under the Jamides and they are divided into 2 main species groups :

The bochus Species Group and the celeno Species Group

Under the bochus we only have the J. bochus (Dark Cerulean)

Many of the species are under the celeno Group which is further divided into 8 subgroups.

I am certain that there are more under these to be added to the checklist . Just be curious and post shots of unusual looking ones .:)

[Wanderer]

well, the previous success of Id-ing the UFOs is indeed encouraging, and also aided by the fact that more members own a CnP4 now? :bsmile:

[butterfly_effect]

i will have to camp out at the site more often then. I hope the odds of seeing it again are high.

[Silverstreak]

Went to the ground , there are plenty of Torch Ginger within the area. We failed to shoot or observe the suspected Jamides alecto ageladas
(The Metallic Caerulean) that Ellen shot!

A few Jamides were fluttering around , it turned out the few that I managed to closely scrutinized were all Jamides celeno aelianus (Common Caerulean) see attach shot of one of the specimen scrutinized.

[butterfly_effect]

Hmmm.... ... .. I guess that means more camping. Thanks for coming around to have a look at all the lookalikes in spite of the rain. Hopefully, we'll be able to see the UFO again.

[butterfly_effect]

Got a very bad slit of an upperside shot today...
http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2017/4510577538_0d417f4185_o.jpg

After looking at C&P4, it doesn't seem to eliminate the metallic caerulean because both females have the same type of markings.

However, now upon looking again at the size difference, it looks closer to nisanca than ageladas.

Hoping to sight it again. There may be more than one individual there. Have to thank Nelson for spotting it.

[butterfly_effect]

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2121/4510577556_db641b164f.jpg

Another record shot

[Silverstreak]

Dr. Seow,

With reference to the link at the other thread on the Jamides .... which was taken by Blufinx aka Kawsy aka Nelson Ong.:)

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4578984402_3304201363_o.jpg

Can I trouble you by digging up this old thread on a Jamides that has a similar tornal patch taken by Ellen Tan aka butterfly_effect....I am still puzzle by its exceptional size.

Thanks!

[Psyche]

The first time reading the Jamides key really put my head in a spin.

Key line 20 & 21. This put the butt in the elpis subgroup.

line 22(not 35) note forewing band is dislocated at vein6.

line 26(not 23) hindwing subbasal striae dislocated.(band is dislocated.)

line 28(not 27); no costal white dashes on the forewing.

line line 30(not 29) 2nd stria in space 7 is midway between 2nd & 3rd striae in cell.

This line 31 to 34 covering 3 spp. elpis, alecto & limes.

This should be an unusual J. alecto. The discal white striae(extendind down from the cell-end bar) in the lower space 1b & 2 on the forewing tend to be broader in alecto than in elpis.Note J. virgulatus is almost identical except for the sub-basal band. The white costal dash in this example is rather poor.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4058/4578984402_3304201363_o.jpg

TL Seow:cheers:

[Silverstreak]

Thanks Dr, Seow for taking the trouble in methodically walking through the C&P4 Jamides keys in arriving at J.alecto.

Most of us are stumped in the first step ..... do not know where to start!!!;P My head always spin and get disorientated halfway through the walk in trying to visualize the words of the 36 keys !!!:bsmile:

I will try to depict what you have just walked through here with a Jamides alecto picture so that all can benefit from your time and effort!!!

Once again, many thanks !!!


Cheers!

[WillFolsom]

Ellen: Glad school is over, all exams passed, and now full time work... but also take time to enjoy the beauty this earth has to offer. William

[Silverstreak]

Ellen's Camera and lens must be growing fungus and mushrooms !.......:whistle: :bsmile: