Coon?

[horace2264]

Shot this brown skipper in WWE the other day.
My ID after comparing with the BC checklist is that this is the Coon.
If confirmed, then this is a +1 for me.

[Common Mime]

I think you got a +1, Horace! But I am no expert in ID.

Checked the checklist and find this shot taken by Steven Wee. The markings on both wings are sort of different from the rest?

Any comment?

http://b-pals.com/butts/photo1/227_1129380510.jpg

[Commander]

Yes, Horace. This is a Coon. The shape of the wings, the body of the butt and the antennae are consistent with the Coon. The three spots near the forewing apex are also another indicator, as are the "dusting" on the hindwings. The hindwing spots are quite variable, and in some specimens that I've seen ther spots are not as distinct than others.

Congrats on your +1 :cheers:

[Painted Jezebel]

Interesting! I have a large number of photos of this species, and none have those underside forewing subapical spots. Neither do they have the marginal light bands!

[horace2264]

Thanks, Chee Ming and Khew for the confirmation. :cheers:

[kaleshs2002in]

This is Forest Hopper Arnetta jama not Coon Psolos
cheers!

[Cruiser]

Hi Dr Kalesh,

Could you highlight the key features/differences between these two to be sure.

thanks in advance.

[kaleshs2002in]

Hi Dr Kalesh,

Could you highlight the key features/differences between these two to be sure.

thanks in advance.

Easiest way is to see the Forewing tips.if they diverge from each other then its coon.The wings are more produced in coon.Underside hue is brown with a violetish tinge with some pale brown areas.
In Foresthopper the underside is blakish brown with grey scales occationally also with 3 apical spots and the wingtips dont diverge from each other.
cheers!

[Commander]

The two shots seem to show that the forewing tips diverge. Do you have shots of the Coon to show as comparison and to illustrate what you mean?

[kaleshs2002in]

The two shots seem to show that the forewing tips diverge. Do you have shots of the Coon to show as comparison and to illustrate what you mean?

No diverging means a structural feature ,here the skipper seems ready to open its wings for basking.i will upload pics in my next post.
cheers!

[kaleshs2002in]

here is coon,see the anatomically diverging wing tips.The humped posture is characteristic.
cheers!

[Commander]

Interesting physical attribute. Looks like C&P4 omitted to mention that anatomical feature. But the species in your shot doesn't appear to match anything we've got over here. Is there a different subspecies in India for Psolos fuligo?

What's your opinion on the following 3 shots? The last one in particular, seems to have golden spots all over its undersides. :thinking:

[kaleshs2002in]

Psolos pulligo subfasciatus is the ssp that we all have.
The images ,first two are Arnetta jama,
the third seems to be a Baoris/Caltoris sps.needs upperside view.also a high resolution pic of the underside.
cheers!

[horace2264]

Interesting! According to C&P4, of the genus Arnetta, we only have A. verones in this region, and furthermore this species was found in West Malaysia, and not in Singapore.

[Commander]

I believe Kalesh may have meant Astictopterus jama jama which is the scientific name of the Forest Hopper in our references for Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore.

I know of no Arnetta jama unless the genus name has been revised recently. :thinking:

Astictopterus jama is listed as extant in Singapore in C&P4, so it may be that this species was mistaken for Psolos fuligo earlier. However, I'll need to re-check the voucher specimens that I have of these species.

[kaleshs2002in]

I believe Kalesh may have meant Astictopterus jama jama which is the scientific name of the Forest Hopper in our references for Thailand, Malaysia and Singapore.

I know of no Arnetta jama unless the genus name has been revised recently. :thinking:

Astictopterus jama is listed as extant in Singapore in C&P4, so it may be that this species was mistaken for Psolos fuligo earlier. However, I'll need to re-check the voucher specimens that I have of these species.

yes i meant Astictopterus jama jama.
We have a Forest hopper in Southern India whose name was earlier Astictopterus jama mercara
This is now called Arnetta.so i mentioned Arnetta.
Im nor sure who/when it was revised?
any idea?

[horace2264]

Thanks, Khew for pointing out the other genus name which C&P4 uses for Forest Hopper. Just read this on p.351, "The unicolorous underside and porrect palpi differentiate this species from the superficially similar Psolos fuligo." I think I could tell the porrect (stretch out, forward) palpi from my shots and yours.

[Commander]

Not that I know of. From recent literatures, there was an addition to the Ancistroides group of the Hesperiidae in that the genus Yania from China, was recently included into the group.

I am not aware that Astictopterus was renamed Arnetta. Perhaps you could check your sources in India if there were any scientific papers written to that effect.

[kaleshs2002in]

Thanks, Khew for pointing out the other genus name which C&P4 uses for Forest Hopper. Just read this on p.351, "The unicolorous underside and porrect palpi differentiate this species from the superficially similar Psolos fuligo." I think I could tell the porrect (stretch out, forward) palpi from my shots and yours.

yep,i didn mention that bec my pics were of low resolution and feared it would cause more confusion!
cheers!

[Painted Jezebel]

Thank you, you have just managed to confirm for me that I have found A. jama here, I was beginning to wonder about the ID of my specimen!

[m00nman26]

Sorry to hijack this thread but i was wondering if the pic i had IDed as the coon is right?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s237/jameschia26/Butterflies/IMG_4016-1.jpg

[Sky Blue]

yes i meant Astictopterus jama jama.
We have a Forest hopper in Southern India whose name was earlier Astictopterus jama mercara
This is now called Arnetta.so i mentioned Arnetta.
Im nor sure who/when it was revised?
any idea?Looking at the C&P 4 plate again, I've no doubt that what we're refer as Coon so far, is actually the Forest Hopper Astictopterus jama jama. The size of the "actual" Coon in C&P 4 is much bigger than the A. jama that we usually encounter, and the marking for the "actual" coon is so much different compare to what we shoot usually :)

Thanks Dr Kalesh :cheers:

[Sky Blue]

Coon from Chin's website (http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/chinfahshin/hesperiinae/fuligo.html)

[horace2264]

There is another pic (http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1003/638428480_0336ee4301.jpg?v=0) at flickr. It looks like we do not have a field shot locally of Coon so far, at least not in the checklist gallery.

[Commander]

Looks like the humpback posture is quite consistent.

Whilst we're at it, check out Idmon distanti distanti which C&P4 also says was extant in Singapore. That'll be another lookalike predominantly all-brown Skipper to scrutinise.

[kaleshs2002in]

Sorry to hijack this thread but i was wondering if the pic i had IDed as the coon is right?

http://i153.photobucket.com/albums/s237/jameschia26/Butterflies/IMG_4016-1.jpg

This is not coon...could be Iambrix/its allies..Idmon etc.
do u have the Upper side pics of the species?

[kaleshs2002in]

Coon from Chin's website (http://www.angelfire.com/journal2/chinfahshin/hesperiinae/fuligo.html)

Both links show Coon...so recheck ur little brown skippers...u may have some interesting finds!
cheers!