Thai hesperiidae id request

[DJHiker]

A couple of Thai Hesperiidae that I find difficult to determine.
Any help is much appreciated.

Photo 1 and 2 (same individual)
Ampittia mariodes?
Location: Lampang, Central Thailand
Date: Jan. 2016
2378423785

Photo 3
Potanthus sp.?
The veins crossing the orange bands are not darkened, so probably not P. Omaha.
Location: Lampang, Central Thailand
Date: Jan. 2016
23786

Photo 4
unidentified
Location: Chiang Dao NP, Chiang Mai province, Thailand
Date: Jan. 2016
23787

Photo 5
also Ampittia mariodes?
Location: Phayao province, Thailand
Date: Jan. 2016
23788

Photo 6
My tentative id would be P. ganda.
However, in this thread http://www.butterflycircle.com/showthread.php?14971-Which-Potanthus-please Dr. Seow states that P. ganda cannot be determined in a photo.
So I guess it’s not possible to go further than Potanthus sp.?
Location: Kaeng Krachan, Phetchaburi province, Thailand
Date: Jan. 2016
23789

Photo 7
unidentified
Location: Kaeng Krachan NP, Phetchaburi province, Thailand
Date: Feb. 2016
23790

Photo 8
Halpe sp.?
Unfortunately no wing underside shot.
Location: Kaeng Krachan NP, Phetchaburi province, Thailand
Date: Feb. 2016
23791

Photo 9
another Potanthus species?
Location: Phimai, Central Thailand
Date: Feb. 2008
23792

All locations at low altitude (<500m)
Thank you in advance for your efforts.
Regards,
David

[Psyche]

Ampittia dioscorides & maroides.
These two are often confused.

A. dioscorides; Upperside FW with a basal orange streak in space 1b; costal orange & subapical orange patch sometimes linked.
Underside ;HW spots often not well-defined, the inner row often vaque.
Un FW inner row(postdiscal) black spots tend to merge into a band.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist/mugshots/Ampittia%20dioscorides%20camertes/242%20Ampittia%20dioscorides%20camertes%20(Bush%20 Hopper)%20Bobby%20Mun.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Ampittia_dioscorides_mating_in_Kadavoor.jpg

Upperside male; Note orange streak at base of space 1b.
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/AmpittiaDioscorides/AmpittiaDioscorides_RohitGirotra_ai153.jpg

A. maroides.Upperside no basal orange streak in space 1b; subapical & costal orange never linked.
Underside spots defined & often intensely black ;HW with 2 rows ;FW black spots separate .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampittia_maroides#/media/File:AmpittiaMaroides_786_2_Fitch.png
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/02_images/travels/hesperiidae/ampittiamaroides.v.jpg

! & 2 ;note underside is that of A. dioscorides.
5 & 9. Note FW basal orange streak in space 1b indicating A. dioscorides.

TL Seow: Cheers.

[Psyche]

3. Probable ID. Female Potanthus nesta.

Note HW band spot 4/5 (combination of spots 4 & 5) strongly projected outwards from spots 2 & 3 Note alignment of the outer margin.
HW spot 6 fairly large & prominent.
Thailand have 19 species of Potanthus so it is doubly difficult as the difference are very small.
Species in which the HW spots 4/5 is project out prominently are trachala, pseudomaesa, pallidus, nesta & lydia.
Similar on the FW spots 4 & 5 are also shifted out & may be completely detached.

P. trachala .FW spots 4 & 5 completely detached & spots stronly notched.
Male & female Singapore.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-3PIfBKnibTU/VRFyeSnobkI/AAAAAAAARBg/OTWQ7QyVuHc/s1600/HFH_8335-Potanthus-sp.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-SR0XC70BzVA/T7ZMq9fF4iI/AAAAAAAAF2E/H-P-CIKXr2g/s1600/DSC0341+Potanthus+trachala+tytleri.jpg

P. seudomaesa. small. rounded wings; FW spots strongly notched .completely detached between % & 6.
India female.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/3/2626/3723503259_48d3dfc7ec_z.jpg?zz=1

P.pallidus .FW spots 4 & 5 completely detached .rather pale underside.
Sri Lanka female.
http://s13.photobucket.com/user/SunnyChir/media/Bin/SNAG_Program-0785_zpsbec5da32.png.html

P. lydia. HW spots 4/5 may not be strongly projected especially in the male ;abdomen tip srongly black.
HW spot 6 absent (?always).FW spot 3 & 4 with slight overlap
https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5648/21483016020_e0f34ba0dc.jpg

P. nesta.FW with slight overlap between 3 & 4. HW spot 6 present.
Male Thailand.
http://www.boldsystems.org/pics/_w300/KHCBT/KHC-8157d%2B1299175904.JPG
http://www.boldsystems.org/pics/_w300/KHCBT/KHC-8157v%2B1299175904.JPG

In comparing all the features it resembles closely to P. nesta.

TL Seow : Cheers.

[Psyche]

4 Probable Borbo cinnara.
The greenish grey & three spots are typical of Borbo.
B. cinnara. FW spots are irregular but hidden at rest.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KaVjdL_FAME/U152N_2DObI/AAAAAAAAdUc/5BJKeJq6wCY/s1600/FS_adult_Khew_01.jpg
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/media_images/BorboCinnara/BorboCinnara_KSaji_ad956.jpg

Borbo or Pseudoborbo bevani.
FW spots are smaller & regular or rounded. Antennal white more prominent.
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8335/8141433833_b41f535518_b.jpg

[Psyche]

No. 6 Probable ID Potanthus confucius female.
HW spot 4/5 less strongly projected outwards than no. 3 .HW band edged with dark spots; spot 6 prominent.
FW spot 5 overlaps with spot 6 above it.

What I said about P. ganda in that thread was that P. ganda is more orangey than P. omaha but this can not be determine in photos.

P. ganda veins not darkened above or below ;HW dark shaded but without obvious spots ;HW spot 6 typically absent.
P. ganda is immediately excluded.
Two males P .ganda , Malaya & Singapore.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-oL-9tHXjMYE/VKcz4DyvYMI/AAAAAAAATEc/zQyGIXV2jS4/s1600/DSC_0162.JPG
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-QZmu9xfHUG0/Vgem0CXVGYI/AAAAAAAABdY/R2UoKPaDrmI/s1600/Potanthus%2Bganda%2B-%2Bunderside.jpg

Most of the others can be excluded except P. pava .
P. pava typically have a larger spot 6 especially topside. On the underside it may be almost similar.

Typicla P. confucius male Thailand.
Note the HW spots are similar; FW spots 4 & 5 overlap more in the male.
http://wingscales.com/content/record/514-1-f6975.jpg

Pair, Taiwan
http://taibnet.sinica.edu.tw/uploads_moved/20140918135953_345496_0.jpg

[Psyche]

No. 7. Scobura isota.
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/expeditions/hesperiidae/scoburaisota/

TL Seow: Cheers.

[Psyche]

No. 8. Probable ID Halpe wantona.
A single upper FW cellspot; spot 2 & 3 do not overlap ; antenna without white dot.

Halpe pelethronix & wantona are stated to be impossible to separate without genitalia examination yet the ref book have images of both in which the abdomens are not removed for such scrutiny.

As H pelethronix do not occur in India (range South Myanmar to Sundaland) the below is H. wantona.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/monsoon_jyoti_gogoi/5089199925/in/album-72157623019598419/

TL Seow : Cheers.

[Psyche]

NO. 6.

The P. ganda female may have a HW spot 6 present (variable)
However, on the FW here the overlap between spot 5 & 6 is too great for P. ganda female.
So it is very likely to be P. confucius.
Here are examples of P. ganda female for comparison.

Female P ganda Singapore same individual
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-I9rwXFooJpo/Uq-OfayjOyI/AAAAAAAAM9A/65jJdVHP7z4/s1600/HFH9849-Potanthus-up.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_P1Lp2q-sCU/Uq-QvNI5E-I/AAAAAAAAM9U/Z05fFsnzl7U/s1600/HFH9840-Potanthus-sp.jpg

Female Malaya . Note FW band almost completely dislocated between spot 5 & 6.
HW spot 6 ,inner corner of spot 4/5.
http://m4.i.pbase.com/g9/25/686825/2/154091894.CttQ8Fzz.jpg

[DJHiker]

Dear Dr. Seow,

Thank you so much for your comprehensive reply.
There are a few points in your comments that still confuse me.
I hope you will allow me to address them briefly, so I can better understand your answer.

Ampittia dioscorides vs. A. mariodes
When I compare the description and images of A. dioscorides and mariodes in Pisuth with your description of these two species, I get the impression that some characteristics are just opposite. For instance, Pisuth describes for A. mariodes FW UP that subcoastal yellow markings are more or less conjoined with subapical patch. Whereas I understand from your reply that subapical and costal orange are normally never linked in A. mariodes.
The images in Pisuth show the distinct black markings on HW UN as well as the 2 rows black spots on FW UN in A. dioscorides instead of A. mariodes, with the inner band of black spots merged into a band is visible on the image of A. mariodes.
Could it be that Pisuth has his species mixed-up?

Halpe wantona or H. pelethronix
All photos were made in Thailand. This one in Kaeng Krachan, near the Burmese border.
H. pelethronix is included in Pisuth’s book with distribution in south and peninsular Thailand, so it could very well be present in the Kaeng Krachan region as well.
If this is the case then I presume that H. pelethronix cannot be excluded as a possible candidate?

Thanks in advance for your opinion.
Cheers,
David

[Psyche]

The probable IDs stated are merely the most likely, without absolute certainty.

Ampittia dioscorides & maroides.

This was brought up in the forum before.
Pisuth had his images & description mixed up.
The description I quoted for maroides were taken from Evan & de Niceville, the original author.

Ampittia dioscorides is very variable, the ones with larger spots are often mistaken for maroides.

A. maroides appeared to be rather rare.


Halpe wantona & pelethronix are practically identical to each other.

H. wantona: range India to Southeast Asia mainland.
H. pelethronix : range south Myanmar to Sundaland (Sumatra, Malaya, Borneo & Java).

This means originally H.wantona is the resident species in Thailand.
H. pelethronix from the Sundaland have steadily made its way north when Malaya joined the mainland.

Based on this I think H. wantona is the commoner & so the more probable of the two.

Likewise the underside of Borbo cinnara & bevani appear to be identical without seeing the main FW spots.
Borbo cinnara is the commoner of the two. The HW of bevani is also more rounded.

TL Seow : Cheers.

[DJHiker]

Thanks for your explanation and your patience.
Cheers,
David