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Lydia
24-Nov-2012, 08:59 PM
It may seem ludricous to suggest the idea of taming a butterfly but dogs were domesticated from wild wolves thousands of years ago. Even the largest mammal on earth, the elephant, has been tamed and set to work by humans. So why can't butterflies be trained to become obedient pets too?

I believe that some butterflies are already partly tamed as can be seen when a butterfly allows a visitor to a butterfly park to hold it in his hand. Is it possible to train a butterfly to come to one when called?
The problem with this proposition is that wolves can live for perhaps 20 years but butterflies mostly live for only 2 weeks, thus the training period is greatly shortened by comparison. However, the members of the Danaus genus can survive for up to 6 months and hence provide a viable opportunity for domestication.

This may sound quite crazy but is there anyone who has succeeded in developing a personal relationship with butterflies out there?

Commander
24-Nov-2012, 09:09 PM
An interesting concept, Lydia. But I haven't come across anyone who has done so. When we have shots of butterflies that are not afraid of humans and interact with them, there is usually the "temptation" of some sort of food as reward. :)

In the tropics, I doubt that Danainae can survive for more than 6 months. Again, references of the species that do, probably came from the western countries. The migrating Monarchs can probably survive a much longer time than any of our local species.

If you come across any "butterfly whisperer" in the region, please do introduce him or her to us! :)

Psyche
25-Nov-2012, 04:46 PM
Mammals have millions more brain-cells than insects that it is no contest.
Dogs have all the emotions of humans, like hate, love , anger & fear. They are social animals & crave companionship, & so bond easily with humans.

Insects operate largely on instinctual behaviour. Survival instincts like flight from shadows & sudden movement are hard-wired & inherited. Any insect which does not respond to perceived threats will be eliminated & not pass on its genes.
A cockroach can survive a week without its head so not much thinking is needed in day to day living. There is little spare brain cells for learning.
Bees can understand the dance of scouts which have located a rich nectar source, but this is also instinctual.

"Bee whisperers" used their knowledge of bee behaviour , queen bees, & pheromones to control bees.
Anyone who claims to be a butterfly whisperer is probably resorting to trickery, eg. a finger smeared with belacan while calling out to a nearby Nawab. (Butterflies are deaf.), or playing with a group of 'adoring' Danaines with a pocket full of Heliotropium.:bsmile:

In Butterfly houses, habituation may made the butterflies 'tame', plus fermentation of the fruit & honey baits.
I once was able to pick up 2 Tawny Rajahs from a piece of poop. The poop was from a Civet cat (musang) & largely fruits. I suspect fermentation into alcohol played a part.

A naturalist once have a pet Heliconius called Higgins for several months. (Heliconius is extremely long-lived.)
The 'pet' may have been accustomed after long captivity or more probably the wintry English weather dissuaded it from heading for the hills.

TL Seow:cheers:

Alfa
25-Nov-2012, 11:10 PM
Interesting write-up, Dr. Seow :)

Lydia
27-Nov-2012, 04:25 PM
This is a lot of information to take in.
Handling Tigers does get them accustomed to my presence. I notice that when I place them on an aristolochia vine to dry out, even after they can fly, they will spend some time sitting there. By contrast, those which have not been conditioned to do so, don't show any interest in aristolochia.

I've experimented with butterflies by spending a few hours with them after eclosure and then releasing them. For days afterward, whenever I stand in my garden, some of them appear and fly around me. But it could be a coincidence.
If I release them immediately after eclosure, they fly off and don't come back.

Sometimes 1 or 2 Plain Tigers sleep in my garden. I notice they go to bed at around 7pm and rise at about 7.15am. The most slothful one woke up just after 8am and that was when I gave a loud cough. Are butterflies really deaf? Or can they feel sound vibrations in the air? The big rubbish truck rolling by sometimes wakes them up.

Tigers are migratory so I believe that when their instincts kick in, all 'training' will be forgotten. I'm amazed that someone had a 'pet' heliconius of the Neotropics as it is my dream to rear some of them. I don't know how to get their vines though. Don't worry, I won't release them if I ever succeed in this plan as they are not endemic to this region. Maybe I can beg the Sentosa Butterfly Park to breed them.

Psyche
27-Nov-2012, 09:40 PM
Lydia you are right. I need to eat humble pie.
Many butterflies can detect sound frequencies from organs on their wings.
Here is one of many article.
http://http-server.carleton.ca/~jyack/butterflyhearing.html

TL Seow:cheers:

Lydia
28-Nov-2012, 12:51 PM
Dr Seow, you and many others in this website form a huge repository of knowledge of butterflies and are willing to share this knowledge with others.
Thank you.

Can someone help me with my problem?
I grow lantana and blue pea vine and I can see lots of blues and hairstreaks flying around. But I've hunted high and low and can't see a single caterpillar. Are they really so tiny?

Psyche
28-Nov-2012, 03:58 PM
I don't think it is possible to train a butterfly to come or even recognise you.
A certain amount of brain power is required.
Insects just doesn't cut the mustard.

Many animals without brain appear intelligent.
A jellyfish swimming about & hunting preys appeared to be intelligent.

Watch a leech in a jungle.
It comes after you purposefully with full intent of mischief.
It even climbs onto leaves on low branches to ambush passing animals.
How does it learn to do that.

What is common to all animals of high or low intelligence is habituation.
Repeated stimuli accustomed the animal to the distraction & it is no longer easily disturbed by it. They thus appeared to be tame.
Likewise humans becomes accustomed to city traffic noise & are not aware of it.

As for the Lantana the only butterfly I have seen ovipositing on the unopened flowers is the Pygmy grass Blue.
Surprisingly, a check shows it is also host to the Slate & Indigo Flash.

The Blue Pea does not seem to be host to any butterfly.

Still the man to answer your question is our local expert on Life-Histories, Horace Tan.
I leave the floor to him.

TL Seow:cheers:

horace2264
28-Nov-2012, 10:46 PM
Dr Seow, so far I have not bred anything on either Lantana or the Blue Pea Vine. :-(

Psyche
28-Nov-2012, 11:11 PM
Dr Seow, so far I have not bred anything on either Lantana or the Blue Pea Vine. :-(

I have actually tried looking for the cats of the Pygmy Grass Blue on lantana but never found any.

TL Seow:cheers:

Silverstreak
29-Nov-2012, 01:57 AM
I had observed the Pygmy Grass Blue ovipositing on the lantana flower buds a few times, but like Seow did not manage to see the eggs with my " old flower eyes ".:grin2:

It must be much smaller than the eggs of the Banded Lineblue and will definitely require a magnifying glass to find it !!:bsmile:

:cheers:

Grass Demon
29-Nov-2012, 12:25 PM
I have bred the Rapala manea chozeba (Slate Flash) or rather they came to the Lantana on my 5th storey balcony many years ago when I was living in a Simei condo. There were a few cats and 2 pupated on my balcony wall. One eclosed successfully. Note: Though Lantana is not endemic, it is the type that occurs in the wild and not those "dwarf" hybrids available in the nurseries nowadays.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lydia
29-Nov-2012, 02:36 PM
But there are a few websites that state that lantana is a host plant for the Pygmy Grass Blue, including the Nature Society of Singapore's. Surely they can't be wrong.
Where did the little butterflies in my garden come from then?

Silverstreak
29-Nov-2012, 04:01 PM
Lydia,

The Pygmy Grass Blue is polyphagous, the larva food plants of the species know so far are Lantana camara, Mimosa pudica (Touch-Me-Not) and Ruellia repens ( Creeping Ruellia ).

The last two are plentiful along grass patches and side-walks of streets and parks. I am sure they are around or in your garden.

http://www.natureloveyou.sg/Ruellia%20repens/Main.html

Psyche
30-Nov-2012, 09:09 AM
Looks like more humble pies to eat.:embrass:

Some insects can be quite intelligent.
Here is one of several articles.
http://news.mongabay.com/2010/0629-hance_chittka.html

TL Seow:cheers:

Lydia
30-Nov-2012, 02:36 PM
Thanks, Sunny, I do see lots of mimosa and creeping ruellia in my neighbourhood even though the grass cutters are doing their very best to get rid of them. Whenever the asystasia gangetica grows lush enough to support different caterpillars, along come the blades to shear them off.

The mystery is solved then: Blues and hairstreaks breed on weeds and wild variety of lantana.

As for taming butterflies, the jury is still out.

I will stick my neck out and claim that the butterflies I pampered when they first eclosed do recognise me and are unafraid of humans.

Psyche
01-Dec-2012, 12:08 PM
As for taming butterflies, the jury is still out.

I will stick my neck out and claim that the butterflies I pampered when they first eclosed do recognise me and are unafraid of humans.

You could try marking the butterflies with a dot of white paint & see if those you have fed or have close contact come repeatedly back to you.

Anecdotes are not entirely convincing.
Remember thousands of people rear butterflies on a regular basis without reporting a close relationship with them.

Butterflies have been shown to be able to learn but this is related to survival instinct.
For example, given purple flowers full of nectar & a white ones with little they soon learn to seek only the purple ones.

The concepts of intelligence & sentience are quite complex (see Wikipedia).
There are different forms & levels of intelligence, including plant intelligence.
Thus, even the jellyfish & leech exhibit different levels of intelligence.(More humble pies to eat. Gulp!:sweat: )

TL Seow:cheers:

Lydia
01-Dec-2012, 04:33 PM
I have marked the wings of Lemon Emigrants with a black marker but didn't have time with them because they flew off quickly after emerging from their pupae. I didn't see them coming back. The 3 Emigrants are very hardy and can fly soon after eclosing.
There's no need to mark my Plain Tigers because I've been releasing 3 to 12 PTigers everyday for the past 10 days. They fly around my garden and the neighbourhood. This morning I counted about a dozen feeding on the cosmos and a pair was mating. 5 of them slept in my compound last night. They are definitely mine because these butterflies are rarely seen in my area.
I can get up close to them and they don't fly off in alarm.

Another question has popped into my head.
Blues feed on the wild lantana but not hybrid types. What happens during plant hybridization that makes hybrid varieties inedible to caterpillars? The plants look quite similar and even smell the same. Are they different chemically?

Psyche
01-Dec-2012, 08:38 PM
What I meant was to mark a few which you may have fed to see if they will return to you on subsequent days for further rewards.

In an urban environment, butterflies becomes accustomed to a high level of disturbances in moving objects, people, vehicles etc, noise and light.
If you release so many a day a large number will likely remains in your garden if there are good nectar flowers.

It is debatable whether butterflies can recognise you as an individual, that is a living being who is a friend & benefactor.
We will leave this discussion to any life science expert who care to contribute.

Regarding hybrids, if one of the parent is not a hostplant, then the hybrid may contains toxins in the leaves detrimental to the cats which may not survive.
This had been shown in a number of cases.
The Lantana hybrids are possibly just dwarf varieties.
In any case Pygmy Grass Blue cats probably feed on the flower buds which do not contain the leaf toxins.

A point to note is it is not possible to switch the hostplant midway. If you have cats on Calotropis you can not leave them on Asclepias at another location. The cats will not feed & die.

Even the same hostplant at another spot may be rejected. This is because the plant at the new spot may have absorbed chemicals from the soil that affect the taste or is toxic.

I once transferred some Tawny Coster cats from a Passiflora foetida growing in a pot to one growing among the Pandan (Pandanus amaryliifolius) and the cats show signs of distress & dropping of the plant.
When I put them back on the original plant they settled down & commence feeding.
Later I have also seen cats on the plant among the Pandan & these grow normally.
Probably the plant growing in the Pandan may have tasted quite different to the cats feeding on the pot plant.

TL Seow:cheers:

Lydia
04-Dec-2012, 07:13 PM
It's interesting to note that it isn't advisable to change host plants midway in raising caterpillars. I've transferred cats from asclepias to caloptropis but not the other way around as calotropis has much bigger leaves. It didn't seem to have any ill effect on the hungry hordes.
This negative effect of changing plants may explain why cats don't do well when moved from one location to another as experienced. I assumed they had been eaten by some predators.

Psyche
04-Dec-2012, 09:06 PM
It's interesting to note that it isn't advisable to change host plants midway in raising caterpillars. I've transferred cats from asclepias to caloptropis but not the other way around as calotropis has much bigger leaves. It didn't seem to have any ill effect on the hungry hordes.
This negative effect of changing plants may explain why cats don't do well when moved from one location to another as experienced. I assumed they had been eaten by some predators.

It is not always true, and there are many exceptions.
It probably depends how closely similar the hostpalnts are in their chemical makeup.
Certainly there are many species whose cats can switched hostplants midway without problem.
If you find the cats happily munching away after the switch it should be alright.

For many species, there is also the suitability of the hostplants.
The preferred hostplant meant a higher percentage of the cats survive to pupate & reach the adult stage.
A less suitable hostplant can mean poor growth & a high mortality of the cats.

TL Seow:cheers: