Ypthima baldus?

[Painted Jezebel]

Going through my Ypthima photos, not many as I find them boring, I came across this one which appears to have differently spaced ocelli on the hinding to my usual photos, and the hindwing appears paler.

Is this Y. baldus newboldi, or something else? If something else, then I will come back with a bit of a problem!!

[Psyche]

It is hard to say what 1 is, but 2 is definitely Y. horsfieldii.

According to C&P4, the ID is based on the underside.
In Y. horsfieldii. the ground colour is whiter, the fasciae or stripings more prominent, the two ocelli in space 2 & 3 are well apart; ocelli 5 & 6 variable in their size difference.

In baldus, the ground colour is more buff, the fasciae less distinct. ocelli 2 & 3 large & joined or at least touched; ocellus 5 is always much larger than ocellus 6.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist%20V2/CI/mugshots/Ypthima%20baldus%20newboldi/61%20Ypthima%20baldus%20newboldi%20(Common%20Five% 20Ring)%20Bobby%20Mun.jpg
Male genintalia are similar.

TL Seow:cheers:
PS. The paler whitish ground & separation of the spots 2 & 3 indicate 1 is also horsfieldii.

[Painted Jezebel]

Thank you. they are the same specimen. I had gone through C&P4 and come to the same conclusion.

I had expected (and feared) this as it causes some problems:

1)Yutaka does not mention Y. horsfieldii humei from Indo-China, even as a synonym for another species.
2)Ek-Amnuay mentions it, but only as a synonym for Y. nebulosa.
3)I recently discovered that another species, Y. singorensis singorensis was reported from Koh Samui in 1984 by Aoki and Uehara, the specimen being collected in 1975. I doubt if this is it though.
4)Pinratana only includes it as part of a 'baldus complex' and follows this with a long and complicated explaination which he describes as only 'provisional', so he was not sure either.

[Psyche]

The Ypthima baldus complex certainly presents a lot of problem.

The Javanese taxon horsfieldii was separated from baldus.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/59592328/Butterflies-W-Java

In Sumatra there are 2 taxa, moerus & nebulosa.
Taxon moerus is retained as ssp. of baldus.

Taxon nebulosa is similar to taxon humei, except the fasciae are obscured.
The name humei (south Myanmar to Malaya) seem to have been dropped, I don't know why.

If you follow the Japanese researchers, then you have Y. nebulosa.

No idea how Y. singorensis looks like.

TL Seow:cheers:
PS. What you have probably comes under the new name of Y. singorensis.
The taxon name humei is inadequately described & is dropped, It was a provisional name based on a male clasper.
Taxon nebulosa is different in the obscure fasciae & in the androconia being 2/3 lenght that of baldus & 'humei'.
Since it can not be nebulosa & is different from baldus it has a new name.

[Painted Jezebel]

Thank you. It starts to make sense (if the baldus complex ever can)!!

As you realise from my previous post, I was getting seriously confused.

[teotp]

No idea how Y. singorensis looks like. TL Seow:cheers:.

Seow, I sent you a revision paper from Uemura & Monastyrskii via email. There are photos of Y. singorensis indosinica.

Teo T P

[Psyche]

Seow, I sent you a revision paper from Uemura & Monastyrskii via email. There are photos of Y. singorensis indosinica.

Teo T P

Thank you, Teo.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

Looking at the numbers of Ypthima species in Vietnem will drive one bonkers.
There are also wsf & dsf.

The Y. singorensis indosinica wsf also have ocelli 2 & 3 touching, resembling Y. baldus baldus from the same area.
About the only difference is the paler ground colour.

Elwes & Edwards described 'Humei' provisinally from a male clasper.
http://www.archive.org/stream/transactionsofen1893roya#page/32/mode/1up
The male holotype had been re-examined by Uemura et al. & concluded to be a synonym of newboldi ssp. of baldus.

I am quite confident the population of 'Ypthima horsfieldi humei' tentatively proposed by Eliot in C&P4 is now Y. singorensis singorensis.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Painted Jezebel]

Looking at the numbers of Ypthima species in Vietnem will drive one bonkers.


Too late, I already am!!!:grin2:

I had a horrible thought, when I saw the new posts on this thread, that I was going to have to change my new Y. singorensis page, which I had just completed and uploaded onto my site!:sweat:

[Psyche]

Oops! Sorry Les, the horrible thoughts you have is going to be exacerbated.
I have thought that since Eliot have already excluded nebulosa & baldus this is Y. singorensis.

In going thru the images in the Vietnam paper it becomes obvious that;
1. Y. singorensis indosinica is very similar to Y. baldus newboldi
2. Y. baldus baldus is darker with more pronounced fasciae.
3. Y. nebulosa is larger, & has a more whitish ground with contrasted fasciae. The dsf is very similar to your pix & to Y. horsfieldii humei here.

The chronolgy of the hh (horsfieldii humei) form is as such.
These forms were considered variants of Y. baldus newboldi in the 80s.
Uemura described Y. nebulosa from Sumatra in 1982 but Eliot synonymised this under humei (mainland forms of hh ) in 1988.
In 1992 he separated nebulosa (Sumatran form) from humei which he thought should be a ssp of Javanese horsfieldii.
Uemura later showed the taxon humei is actually a synonym of newboldi. Japanese entomologists have begun describing nebulosa from the mainland from 1984 in increasing numbers.
In contrast there are few specimens of Y. singorensis singorensis.

It would appeared that the name Y. horsfieldii humei received little support outside the Malaysian border.
Eliot did not indicate any change in his last update in 2006, but he does not repeat previous admendments.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Painted Jezebel]

Thank you. It is now official, I have gone Ga-Ga!:mad2: :stupid: :blah: :stupid:

Am I right, in understanding your comments, that I need to change it to Y. nebulosa? If so, not too time-consuming.

It may be a day or two to change, I'm going to lie down, I have a headache!!!!!!

[Psyche]

Thank you. It is now official, I have gone Ga-Ga!:mad2: :stupid: :blah: :stupid:

Am I right, in understanding your comments, that I need to change it to Y. nebulosa? If so, not too time-consuming.

It may be a day or two to change, I'm going to lie down, I have a headache!!!!!!

That's about right.
The Japanese entomologists in Thailand never used the name Y. horsfieldii humei.
Here is an example of Y. nebulosa wsf from Thailand.
The ocelli are variable. The ground is whitish.
http://v2.boldsystems.org/pics/_w300/KHCBT/KHC6638v%2B1277838622.jpg

Y. nebulosa is called the Malayan Fivering in Thailand.
http://www.norththailandbirding.com/pages/checklists/butterfly_checklist.html

TL Seow:cheers: