Which Jamides celeno ssp?

[Painted Jezebel]

I am rather confused as to the correct ssp. we have here on the peninsular.

This site, C&P4, Pinratana and Ek-Amnuay all have our ssp. as J. c. aelianus. However, Yutaka gives the ssp. as J.c.celeno, with ssp. J. c. aelianus for northern Thailand and its environs.

I normally treat Yutaka's site with almost complete reverence, but is he wrong on this occasion?

I need to speak to Yutaka about some other matter, should I mention this to him, or do we all have it wrong?

[Psyche]

I think Yutaka is right.
The type location of aelianus is India, while that of celeno is Sumatra. This indicates the continental form is aelianus and the Sundainian form is celeno .

Miyasaki , Saito & Saito have recorded J. celeno celeno from Vietnam in 2007 and this would be quite incongrous.
(I think they are part of the Yutaka team.)

Yutaka have referred all forms in penisular Thailand & Malaya to celeno.

In celeno the upperside black border is wider & the underside orange is large.
Ssp celeno from Sumatra.
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepidoptera/Lycaenidae/IMG_3921.JPG
Ssp. celeno from Malaya.
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepidoptera/Lycaenidae/P3120009.JPG

In aelianus the black border is narrow & the underside orange is restricted.
Ssp. aelianus from Chiang Mai.
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepidoptera/Lycaenidae/P1190045.JPG
Ssp. aelianus from India
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Common_Cerulean_(Jamides_celeno)_in_Talakona_ forest,_AP_W_IMG_8499.jpg

Yutaka have made many other changes eg with Saletara, Doleschallia, Kallima, Vagrans, etc.

TL Seow:cheers:
PS. J celeno from KPN for comparison.
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepidoptera/Lycaenidae/P2060003.JPG

[Painted Jezebel]

Interesting!! I have waited two days to see if there were any further comments. I was expecting additional comments, in view of the suggestion that the subspecies quoted on this site, and mine, could be completely wrong.

[Psyche]

What a mess !

I had looked at the funet website & it states taxon celeno TL "India" while for taxon aelianus TL is not stated.
( " India" in the 18th century include the Sunda islands (the East Indian Islands.). Note funet states J. celeno celeno, localities Sumatra, and Taiwan.)

This Indian website have "followed" funet & J celeno celeno is quoted for the whole of mainland India. Taxon aelianus is totally rejected.
http://ifoundbutterflies.net/31-polyommatinae/jamides-celeno-dp2

On Yutaka website the TL for celeno is Sumatra & for aelianus is India.

TL Seow:cheers:
PS. The forewing black border is quite variable in width. Here is one from Malaya in which the black border is rather narrow & similar to the male from KPN.
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepidoptera/Lycaenidae/P3130001.JPG
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepidoptera/Lycaenidae/P3120016.JPG
( J. pura in Malaya have no black border & J. zebra only faintly so.)

[Psyche]

I did a little more checking.
This website does not quote funet as reference.
It has the TL of celeno Cramer as Sumatra & aelianus Fabricius as Pulau Mai (near Ambon).
(C&P4 states Fabricius' taxa often have erroneous locations.)
http://species.wikimedia.org/wiki/Jamides_celeno

To complicate matters here is an example from Doi Inthanon NE of Chiang Mai which according to Yutaka would be ssp aelianus.
The problem is I can't see any difference with the forms from Malaya & KPN mentioned in my previous post given the variability of the black border.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/6d/JamidesCelenoAelianusMFUpUnAC1.jpg

TL Seow:cheers: