2 Skippers for ID

[Yamfly]

Wondering if Seow could land a hand on this. :embrass:
Other experts are welcome to join in too. ;P

Pelopidas conjunctus conjunctus?
http://dashwolfe.smugmug.com/ButterfliesOfSingapore/Hesperiidae/i-sSgtVDZ/0/L/DPP1220-L.jpg

http://dashwolfe.smugmug.com/Nature/Butterfly-Sightings/i-kfH3Gwx/0/L/DPP1263-L.jpg
Sorry no underside shot of this.

Caltoris sp?
http://dashwolfe.smugmug.com/ButterfliesOfSingapore/Hesperiidae/i-b4S7VMW/0/L/DPP1259-L.jpg

http://dashwolfe.smugmug.com/Nature/Butterfly-Sightings/i-ZF6mbhV/0/M/DPP1262-M.jpg

http://dashwolfe.smugmug.com/Nature/Butterfly-Sightings/i-fmvN2cS/0/M/DPP1261-M.jpg

Thanks and sorry for the trouble.

[Psyche]

I think you have a couple of winners here, though I am not absolutely certain at the moment.

The first have no cell spots so it can not be P. conjunctus. I presumed it is a large species, and should be Caltoris .
Notice that the spots in space 2 & 3 are concave on the outer margin giving them a crescentic appearance.
Only C. plebeia fits the bill. See C&P4 plate60/31, & Fleming H245.

The 2nd have a tiny upper cell spot and so would have 2 cell spots.
The upperside shows a dark smudge on the hindwing, but it is not the "paintbrush" as the real brush is set lower. This means it is Caltoris.
The underside is a stippling of rich ochreous brown on a very dark ground colour. This stippled colour is similar to the Contiguous Swift. It also looks ferruginous (rusty redbrown) but this is due to low lighting on the wing surface.
C. cormasa which sometimes have a tiny upper cellspot have a distinctive ferruginous colour that evenly covered the wings. It also have light brown antennal shafts. See http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist%20V2/CI/index.php/start-page/startpage/showbutterfly/247
( Note also the underside of Baoris have a relatively bald look on the hindwing. )

Two cell spots, ochreous brown shading and the verdict is C. bromus.

Zoom on the male underside here for comparison http://www.hkls.org/hes/Cbromus/Cbromus.htm

A HK female for comparison. Note female skipper typically have a paler tone.
http://www.bokbokland.com/hk/butterfly/he/he48.htm

TL Seow:cheers:
I realised that the greatest confusion is with C. cormasa, since the colour tone depends on lighting condition and camera settiing. Also the antennal shafts appear black on the side facing the camera in most pictures.
Here is a worn individual of C. cormasa showing that the forewing colour remains evenly brown.http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hoRq1rhoY5Y/Slnp_HXnbUI/AAAAAAAABjg/iemSCfHrPP8/Caltoris.jpg

[Yamfly]

Hi Seow,

Thank you for your detailed explaination, appreciate your help. I have made a comparison to pick out the differences & distinctive features which you have mentioned using the C&P4 and your links. Therefore, I would like to clarify some of my doubts.

As stated in C&P4, C.plebeia also have upturned hair tufts on the dorsum near the base. I believe the 1st pic fits this criteria.
However, I wonder if it is too light in color to be a Caltoris as they are known to be dark brown.

Looking at the plates of the C.cormasa in C&P4 (Plate 60/26&27), it appears to have 2 cell spots as well (hope I'm looking correctly).

Underside of 2nd skipper not evenly colored thus not a feature of C.cormasa, a feature of C.bromus.

I counted a total of 7 spots on the forewing (including cell spots) of the 2nd skipper.

I then counted a total of 8 forewing spots for the C.bromus from the Hong Kong Lepidopterists' Society link.

Lastly, the C.cormasa from C&P4 have 7 spots. Same number as the 2nd skipper.

Sorry if this may sound amateurish or irrelevant because of my lack of butterfly knowledge.

Thanks again for helping me out. :)

[Yamfly]

:
I realised that the greatest confusion is with C. cormasa, since the colour tone depends on lighting condition and camera settiing. Also the antennal shafts appear black on the side facing the camera in most pictures.
Here is a worn individual of C. cormasa showing that the forewing colour remains evenly brown.http://lh5.ggpht.com/_hoRq1rhoY5Y/Slnp_HXnbUI/AAAAAAAABjg/iemSCfHrPP8/Caltoris.jpg

Thanks Seow for the additional info. The colors of the antennal shafts of pic 2 clearly doesn't match the C. cormasa.

[Psyche]

The upperside pattern of the first skipper matched that of C. plebeia, but there is no underside pic for checking with the key.
The hair tufts are near the base of the forewing dorsum on the underside and I can't tell if this is so from pic 1. Those hairs are from the front edges of the hindwings.

Pic 2 is interesting. There is a dark patch on the dorsum of the forewing precisely where the hair tuft should be. Do you have another clearer shot ?
As for the colour, C. plebeia is quite dark on the upperside as seen in C&P4.

C. cormasa usually have only one lower cellspot ( thus Fullstop Swift ), but sometimes have another tiny upper cellspot as well, and rarely no cellspot at all.
C. bromus always have two cellspots ( thus Colon Swift ). The total nos. of spots is irrelevant since this is variable.

Because C. cormasa is a rusty redbrown on the underside and this 2nd skipper appears reddish, I was trying to show that its colouration pattern resembles that of C. bromus rather than C. cormasa.

The antennal shafts of cormasa is a bit confusing, but appeared to be black above and light brown below. Probably the antennae of bromus are similar.

I thought I'll add another worn C. cormasa to show it can not be this species. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7g/SXxppMm-U0I/AAAAAAAAARQ/mv3fzR0dw2c/s400/DSC_0170+Caltoris+sp.jpg

TL Seow:cheers:

[Yamfly]

The upperside pattern of the first skipper matched that of C. plebeia, but there is no underside pic for checking with the key.
The hair tufts are near the base of the forewing dorsum on the underside and I can't tell if this is so from pic 1. Those hairs are from the front edges of the hindwings.

Pic 2 is interesting. There is a dark patch on the dorsum of the forewing precisely where the hair tuft should be. Do you have another clearer shot ?
As for the colour, C. plebeia is quite dark on the upperside as seen in C&P4.

C. cormasa usually have only one lower cellspot ( thus Fullstop Swift ), but sometimes have another tiny upper cellspot as well, and rarely no cellspot at all.
C. bromus always have two cellspots ( thus Colon Swift ). The total nos. of spots is irrelevant since this is variable.

Because C. cormasa is a rusty redbrown on the underside and this 2nd skipper appears reddish, I was trying to show that its colouration pattern resembles that of C. bromus rather than C. cormasa.

The antennal shafts of cormasa is a bit confusing, but appeared to be black above and light brown below. Probably the antennae of bromus are similar.

I thought I'll add another worn C. cormasa to show it can not be this species. http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7g/SXxppMm-U0I/AAAAAAAAARQ/mv3fzR0dw2c/s400/DSC_0170+Caltoris+sp.jpg

TL Seow:cheers:

Hi Seow,

I understand now. Since the 2nd skipper have cell spots common to both C. cormasa and C.bromus and antennae shaft is too vague to be used to differentiate. Coloration is the only remaining key to ID the 2nd skipper. I was thinking if the coloration of the 2nd skipper is due to wear and tear but your 2 worn out C. cormasa pics showed me otherwise.
As for the 1st skipper, I'm afraid I do not have anymore pics. It will remain as a mystery. Thank you for the insightful lesson, even if I cannot have a full confirmation of the 2nd skipper, I now know the key difference between C. cormasa and C.bromus. :)

[Psyche]

I try looking at other Caltoris pics in the same posture to see if the black mark on the dorsal margin of the forewing underside is present, and it is not.
So most likely that mark in pic 2 is the hair tufts.

I try searching for pics of C. cormasa to see if the stippling brown colour ( overlay of brown scales ) on the wings seen in the first & third pics of the 2nd skipper is present. It appears not to be.

One problem is that the C. cormasa pics are taken with a flash and so the comparison is not accurate.

Still, these two IDs are tentative until there are new examples to compare.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

After looking at pics of the Sumatran Gem in which different flash lighting conditions can also rendered the underside dark, I realised the 2nd skipper shoud be Caltoris cormasa.

The underside have too much red tone and the upper cell-spot is tiny for it to be C. bromus.

[Yamfly]

After looking at pics of the Sumatran Gem in which different flash lighting conditions can also rendered the underside dark, I realised the 2nd skipper shoud be Caltoris cormasa.

The underside have too much red tone and the upper cell-spot is tiny for it to be C. bromus.

Thanks Seow for shedding new light to this thread. :cheers:

[Psyche]

Your first skipper is actually the Formosan Swift (Borbo cinnara).

Caltoris do not have the greenish hairs on the wingbase and body.
Compare http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist%20V2/CI/index.php/start-page/startpage/showbutterfly/246

TL Seow:cheers:

[Yamfly]

Your first skipper is actually the Formosan Swift (Borbo cinnara).

Caltoris do not have the greenish hairs on the wingbase and body.
Compare http://www.butterflycircle.com/checklist%20V2/CI/index.php/start-page/startpage/showbutterfly/246

TL Seow:cheers:

Thanks Seow. Just curious to know that the first skipper could well be identified as Borbo cinnara if only the spot at space 1b of the forewing above is being recorded, am I correct?

[Psyche]

Thanks Seow. Just curious to know that the first skipper could well be identified as Borbo cinnara if only the spot at space 1b of the forewing above is being recorded, am I correct?

Probably not, because many others especially the females have a spot in space 1b.

The green hair-scales however effectively ruled out Baoris, Caltoris, Polytremis, & Parnara. Only the 2 smaller Pelopidas, mathias & agna have some greenish hair.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

I did a rechecking.

There is an exception to Caltoris regarding the greenish hair scales.

C. philippina do have greenish hair scales on its body & wingbase, but it's quickly separated by its sharply pointed forewings.

[Yamfly]

I did a rechecking.

There is an exception to Caltoris regarding the greenish hair scales.

C. philippina do have greenish hair scales on its body & wingbase, but it's quickly separated by its sharply pointed forewings.

Thanks for the additional info Seow. :)