Help with Rapala species please

[MrGee]

I found this Rapala recently and, unable to identify it with my limited resources, asked Les for some help (as usual). He said:


Very interesting. To be honest, I am not absolutely sure which species it is. Using C&P4 keys, I seem to come out at Rapala rhodopis. This is a rare species, and would be a great find. There is no harm in posting the photos on BC to see if anyone can help. There are a couple of very similar species which would be even more surprising to find in Cambodia, they really are not supposed to be anywhere close to your area, R. cowani and R. hades.

So, please can someone help with this ID?

Many thanks

http://www.rainbowlodgecambodia.com/butterflies/pics/Rapala%20unknown%20B1.JPG

http://www.rainbowlodgecambodia.com/butterflies/pics/Rapala%20unknown%20B2.JPG

http://www.rainbowlodgecambodia.com/butterflies/pics/Rapala%20unknown%20B3.JPG

[Commander]

Hi Gee,

The Rapala genus is well-studied by the Japanese, and there are still new discoveries at species/subspecies level. Not easy to ID and you may want to refer to our Rapala resource here (http://www.butterflycircle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=5949).

That red patch on the forewing with near-brown hindwings could also point to R. nissa

[Psyche]

After going through the pics of all the Rapala the most likely ID is R. nissa.

R. nissa is widespread, & ? common. Called Common Flash, the mainland form usually is steely blue in both sexes, but there are examples in which an orange patch is present on the forewing.

It is highly likely that some forms may lose the irridescent blue as shown in the Sumatran race. This is more likely to occur in the female, and this happen to be a female, from the broad wings.

The underside pattern also supports this ID. Both the postdiscal lines or bands are fairly straight, a hallmark of this species. They are not curved in an arc like most of the other species.

TL Seow:cheers:

[MrGee]

Thank you Seow. Not quite so exciting as one of Les's suggestions but they cannot all be rare!

[MrGee]

Oh, I forgot to say thank you also for the link to the Rapala resource - very useful!

[Painted Jezebel]

I did not consider R. nissa for several reasons. Firstly, the upperside was not steely blue, and secondly, C&P4 states that it is a purely montane species. The underside is also supposed to be purple washed, this one does not appear so. Finally, the orange discal patch seems larger, expanding into space 2, than in the photos of the species I have seen.

This is a tricky one, to me!:)

[MrGee]

So, will I need to leave this one as an unidentified Rapala?

[Psyche]

The butterfly is R. nissa.

There are only two species with the postdiscal lines/bands fairly straight on both wings. They are nissa & cowani. R. cowani have more irregular hindwing band.

Two other orangey species R. hades & rhodopis can be ruled out because the forewing band is curved and the hindwing band is ragged.

Here is an example from Yunnan.http://www.gorodinski.ru/view_lycaenidae.php?id_lycaenidae=54
The race from Taiwan is similar on the underside.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fanedison/4586272479/

TL Seow:cheers:

[MrGee]

Sorry for not responding sooner. I was hoping Les, who still disagrees, for the reasons he previously stated, would post and you could discuss it further, but he has been very busy on other things.

It has crossed my mind that the angle of the shot, with the wings slightly open, could be making the lines/bands appear to be straighter than they actually are.

[Psyche]

Sorry for not responding sooner. I was hoping Les, who still disagrees, for the reasons he previously stated, would post and you could discuss it further, but he has been very busy on other things.

It has crossed my mind that the angle of the shot, with the wings slightly open, could be making the lines/bands appear to be straighter than they actually are.

You can compare the underside with other examples of R. nissa on the net eg India. Also check other Rapala species that might possibly have an orange patch on the forewing in your area.

If I have not seen the Yunnan male and the Sumatran subspecies of R. nissa, I would have been unable to come to a conclusion.
By a process of elimination there is no other possibilty to me.

Still, the final conclusion is yours to make.
It might be possible to forward your pic. to the Japanese lepidoptera societies for help. They should be delighted with a such request.

TL Seow:cheers:
PS I thought I'll point out a few facts.

The only 2 species here in SE Asia, in which the females have an orange patch on the forewing are R. cowani & nissa.
Subspecies pahanga of R. nissa is montane but further north the species is not.
The lines are too straight even if the wings are slightly open. C&P4 (BMP)'s key specifically state the forewing band of nissa is unsually straight.

[Psyche]

I have checked out the Yutaka website for Rapala.
There are half a dozen more "new" species not listed in the other Rapala site.
Four checked and are dark brown species.
Two have no images. They are R. tara & R. micans.

Unfortunately there are also no image for R. nissa.

Although I am fairly confident it will turn out to be R. nissa, the other two species tara & micans will also need to be ruled out.

TL Seow:cheers:

[MrGee]

According to this site (http://193.166.3.2/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/papilionoidea/lycaenidae/theclinae/rapala/index.html) R. tara and R. micans can be ruled out based on their distribution.

[Psyche]

I should have checked the funet website earlier.
There have been quite a change of nomenclature in the site.
Both tara & micans occur in the INdochinese area.

The eastern races of R. nissa, haniae(Yunnan) and hirayamana(Taiwan) are elevated to a new species R. micans.

The chinese ssp. is interesting in having an orange patch on a blue ground, but there are examples in which the steely blue colour disappeared in the male. The female remains a steely blue.
http://www.nature-china.net/home/attachment/200911/8/178385_1257657073CS37.jpg
The pic labelled here as R. caerulea should be R. micans(click to webpage).

One mistake was in assuming your pic was a female. The perspective is somewhat squashed making the wings appeared very broad.

I would say your pic is R. micans male.

[MrGee]

Thank you, Seow, for your perseverance.

But I am now confused over the genus. I just found this site (http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1754018) that suggests Rapala nissa and Rapala micans have been reclassified Bidaspa nissa and Bidaspa micans, respectively.

[Psyche]

Thank you, Seow, for your perseverance.

But I am now confused over the genus. I just found this site (http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1754018) that suggests Rapala nissa and Rapala micans have been reclassified Bidaspa nissa and Bidaspa micans, respectively.

Bidaspa is one of many genera created by Moore (a wellknown splitter) unnecessarily splitting off the Rapala spp into multiple genera.
In the funet website for Rapala you will see all the synonyms for Rapala given at the begining.

Stick with the Yutaka website. The Japanese are in the forefront in butterfly revisions and taxonomy.

TL Seow:cheers:

[MrGee]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Ichoker]

Thank you, Seow, for your perseverance.

But I am now confused over the genus. I just found this site (http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1754018) that suggests Rapala nissa and Rapala micans have been reclassified Bidaspa nissa and Bidaspa micans, respectively.

To make matters more complicated according to British Natural History Museum's Lepindex; nissa and micans are actually synonyms placed under Bidaspa. http://www.nhm.ac.uk/research-curation/research/projects/lepindex/search/detail.dsml?TaxonNo=195705.0&UserID=&UserName=&&listPageURL=list%2edsml%3fsort%3dSCIENTIFIC%255fNA ME%255fon%255fcard%26SCIENTIFIC_NAME_on_cardqtype% 3dends%2bwith%26beginIndex%3d30%26SCIENTIFIC_NAME_ on_card%3dmicans%26recLimit%3d30&searchPageURL=index%2edsml%3fsort%3dSCIENTIFIC%255 fNAME%255fon%255fcard%26SCIENTIFIC_NAME_on_cardqty pe%3dends%2bwith%26beginIndex%3d30%26SCIENTIFIC_NA ME_on_card%3dmicans%26recLimit%3d30

[Psyche]

To make matters more complicated according to British Natural History Museum's Lepindex; nissa and micans are actually synonyms placed under Bidaspa


Lepindex have many entry errors.
The classification recorded appeared to be based largely on the revisions by old British authors & not updated.

All the old genera by Moore which are now synonyms of Rapala are still listed as valid.
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/papilionoidea/lycaenidae/theclinae/rapala/index.html

TL Seow:cheers:

[Ichoker]

Lepindex have many entry errors.
The classification recorded appeared to be based largely on the revisions by old British authors & not updated.

All the old genera by Moore which are now synonyms of Rapala are still listed as valid.
ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/life/insecta/lepidoptera/ditrysia/papilionoidea/lycaenidae/theclinae/rapala/index.html

TL Seow:cheers:
thanks. and yes I've noticed that. thanks for the link too though I can bare follow anything on funet :-( .