Arhopala athada?

[Commander]

Horace, this Arhopala that we shot today intrigues me, in that the post-discal band is dislocated. All the shots of the Vinous Oakblue in your blog article (http://butterflycircle.blogspot.com/2008/04/life-history-of-arhopala-athada-athada.html) shows that this band is not dislocated.

The other characteristic markings on the hindwing seem to match Vinous Oakblue though. Are you aware of any similar Arhopala that is not athada that sports this dislocated spot in the postdiscal band? :thinking:

[horace2264]

The post-discal spot in space 4 on the forewing being out of line with the spots above and below it is one known feature of the eumolphus group.
I suppose you didn't see any green upperside(?). A female Arhopala eumolphus perhaps?

[Commander]

Those of us who were shooting it definitely saw the purple upperside. It's a female, with broad black borders on the forewing upperside. So it's definitely not an A. eumolphus.:hmmm:

[horace2264]

Those of us who were shooting it definitely saw the purple upperside. It's a female, with broad black borders on the forewing upperside. So it's definitely not an A. eumolphus.:hmmm:

According to C&P4, page 285, "The male of A. eumolphus is rather brassy green, with the forewing border decreasing from 2.0mm at the tornus to 1.0mm. at the apex. The female is purple blue, and on the forewing the border reaches the apex of the cell". So the specimen you saw with purple upperside and broad border could still be a female A. eumolphus. :)

[horace2264]

My breeding run in 2007 of A. eumolphus involving up to 20 specimens gave me the opportunity to view both sexes up close, and the female A. eumolphus specimens definitely did not exhibit a green upperside.

[Commander]

Sorry, I meant to say that it's definitely not a male A. eumolphus cos we saw the purple upperside. But you're right in saying that you had a good run of many specimens of the Green Oakblue and would have seen those comparative characteristics.

So this one is more likely a female Green Oakblue than a Vinous Oakblue that I'd assumed earlier.

So for Loke, Chng, Cherhern and Benjamin, it's probably a +1 shot of the Green Oakblue, although what they shot wasn't green at all. :grin2:

[horace2264]

Sorry, I meant to say that it's definitely not a male A. eumolphus cos we saw the purple upperside.
I see. :)
Definitely got me worked hard for a while in the early morning, digging up my old photo archive and double checking C&P4. :sweat:

Another noticeable difference is in the hindwing underside, post-discal spot 6. This spot in the male is much wider, so much so that it overlaps with the end-cell bar and post-discal spot 5, while the female's just fitting the space between the end-cell bar and spot 5. This is seen in your pics in post #1.

[Commander]

I see. :)
Definitely got me worked hard for a while in the early morning, digging up my old photo archive and double checking C&P4. :sweat:

Another noticeable difference is in the hindwing underside, post-discal spot 6. This spot in the male is much wider, so much so that it overlaps with the end-cell bar and post-discal spot 5, while the female's just fitting the space between the end-cell bar and spot 5. This is seen in your pics in post #1.

Thanks for the details. At least now I know where to look, if I had the chance to shoot these fellas out in the field.

Sorry for sending you scrambling to refer to your archives. :embrass: You weren't the one digging out old archives. I was also comparing the shots with my Arhopala bin, and I found this one where the forewing post-discal band is completely moved off after vein 4. I can't quite place this one either after comparing quite a lot of shots. Have you got one in your archives that have this significant dislocation? This is one of the tailed Arhopala.

This one was also shot at USR many years ago.

[horace2264]

The keys on page 273 of C&P4 distinguishing A. cleander and other members of the cleander subgroup by the degree of continuity of the post-discal band across vein 4 on the forewing underside.

The postdiscal band in the A. cleander is "not dislocated at vein 4, though it may be sinuous there", while the rest of the subgroup is "partially dislocated at vein 4" (see pic 6 on plate 42, C&P4 for A. athada male).

I am inclined to think the specimen shown in the post above is that of A. athada with the spot in space 3 shifted more to the wing base than usual. :)

After checking the pics of "A. athada" I bred from KRP, I am now wondering whether we actually have A. cleander on our little island too. :thinking:

[Commander]

Thanks for sharing these valuable analyses. Looks like we'll need some additional inputs from Prof Fiedler on these little fellas. Did you keep any vouchers from the KRP set?

[horace2264]

Thanks for sharing these valuable analyses. Looks like we'll need some additional inputs from Prof Fiedler on these little fellas. Did you keep any vouchers from the KRP set?
I don't even know how to set a specimen. :)
Did I pass you any bred A. athada specimen in April 2008? :thinking:
They were from the KRP set.

Looks like I need to do more work on the "A. athada" species from both USR and KRP sites.

[Commander]

Can always teach you if you'd like. Since you do most of the breeding. :)

Gotta go check for the voucher specimens that you bred. But I recall that you passed me A. silhetensis, A.emolus only.

[horace2264]

Can always teach you if you'd like. Since you do most of the breeding. :)

Gotta go check for the voucher specimens that you bred. But I recall that you passed me A. silhetensis, A.emolus only.
I have space constraint at home. No space to keep any voucher collection. :)

As for voucher specimens of A. athada, it is possible that none was passed as you already had that species in your collection.