Thanks very much, Roger. I'll repost the ugly one onto the early stages forum. Discussion on that one will cease here, unless shown to be a moth in due course!
Thanks for the ID on No.1, Roger. I have googled it and discovered that the moth is what I call 'That bloody thing again', as it is another I keep mistaking for a butt when on the wing, only discovering its true identity when it rests.
No 2 is a moth after all, Roger. It has made a cocoon today, but in a very inaccessible position for photography. I am having to photo through the netting to get a shot of it. It also does not help being the same colour as the box!
From the colour of the cocoon, it appears to have used the wood of the box to make it!