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Thread: Keys to butterfly description terms

  1. #11
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    Thanks all for the superb info. still some confusion lingers. I've noticed in Sunny's post that the veins 8 and 9 are missing. why's that? see this also http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fichier...s_venation.png

  2. #12
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    Hi ,

    Most venation diagram depicts only the main veins, as Vein 8 and 9 are considered as branches of vein 7 , and also not all species has vein 8 &9 .

    There are great variation on the present or absent of vein 8 and 9 across the sub-families

    For Hesperiidae all veins on both wings are unbranched and run straight to the costal or distal margin.

    For Nymphalidae forewing vein 8 & 9 are present .

    whilst in the Lycaenidae's forewing some are with either vein 8 and 9 missing .

    Sunny

    ~~When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going~~

    Sunny's Facebook on Butterflies!

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  3. #13
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    I've understood that much. and also that wing venation plays a major role in lepidoptera systematics. What I haven't got yet is how do you decide that the vein next to 7 is not 8 and the next not 9. what is the criteria for numbering the veins. thanks

  4. #14
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    Perhaps Dr. Seow and Mr. Teo T.P can enlighten us ?

    What I haven't got yet is how do you decide that the vein next to 7 is not 8 and the next not 9. what is the criteria for numbering the veins. thanks
    Sunny

    ~~When the Going Gets Tough, the Tough Get Going~~

    Sunny's Facebook on Butterflies!

    ~

  5. #15
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    anyone please?
    I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky; then I awoke. Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am a man

  6. #16
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    If you have Butterflies of the Malay Peninsula by Corbet & Pendlebury, then it is on page 4 & 5.

    The numbering of the veins are from the lowest to the highest.

    Note 3 veins are unbranched & always on the costa or forward margin, namely vein 10, 11, & 12.
    (Correction: in Amathusines & some Satyrines vein 10 is joined to, ie. arises from vein 7.

    Veins 7 , 8, & 9 are usually joined.
    If so vein 7 is the lowest vein & vein 8 is said to arise from vein 7 & not the other way round.
    likewise with vein 9.
    If a vein is missing the first to be absent is assumed to be vein 8, followed by vein 9.

    In the case of Delias including D. eucharis it is vein 10 , one of the unbranched costal vein which is absent, not vein 9.

    The Wikipedia diagram by Bingham is a century old & outdated.
    Likwwise , Sunny your diagram source is in error.

    TL Seow
    Clarification
    The veins are arranged like the barbs of a feather.
    From the central cell (= shaft or rachis of a feather) the free veins that run on one side are 12, 11, & 10 ,and on the other side 1 to 6.
    At the apex 3 veins come close together & are joined to a common origin.
    This is seen in most butterflies.
    Sometimes vein 10 & or vein 6 also join.
    In skippers all the apical veins remain free.

    The Wikipedia drawing is a copy of the Delias diagram by Bingham & the veins would be considered wrongly labelled.
    Last edited by Psyche; 22-Dec-2012 at 10:23 AM. Reason: clarification

  7. #17
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    Thank you Dr. Seow for taking time out to answer this. That was great help. I had gathered as much from Evans' 'The Identification of Indian Butterflies, 1932', but pictures referred above confused me.
    I dreamed I was a butterfly, flitting around in the sky; then I awoke. Now I wonder: Am I a man who dreamt of being a butterfly, or am I a butterfly dreaming that I am a man

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