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Thread: Identification of Tagiades waterstradti

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2016

    Default Identification of Tagiades waterstradti

    Two images are attached.
    Both were photographed in s Thialand on the Malaysia border.
    T. ultra is relatively common in the area.
    T. waterstradti is scarce in the area.
    I think the first image is likely T. waterstradti, but I am unfamilair with the taxon.

    The grouping of the spots on the forewing into groups of 5 and 2 seem to initially indicate T. waterstradti for both these images.
    But I think the spots on the hindwing are too large in the second image, so I think second image is T. ultra.

    Comparing the first image to the few images of T. waterstradti I can find in the literature and web, indicates the smaller spots in the hindwing, as well and the general layout of the spots in image 1 seem to match T. waterstradti.
    I also note that the forewings on image 1 appear shorter and more rounded than on image 2. A differntiating feature?

    However, I find an image of female T. ultra on Yutaka's website that has groups of 5 and 2 spots in the forewing. Though hindwing spots are still larg(ish) and evenly sized.
    This creates confusion.

    One thing I did notice about the individual in image 1, was its small size.

    Is waterstradti smaller than ultra? I can find no size measurements anywhere.
    Feedback appreciated please.

    Image 1.

    Image 2.
    b7205 Ultra Snow Flat (Tagiades ultra) 195 m - TH (Bang Lang - Chula 9) 01.JPG

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2010


    Image 1.Tagiades waterstradti female.

    Image 2 ;Male Tagiades ultra.

    Three species can be rather similar & confusing.

    FW apex with a series of five spots, 4, 5, 6, 7, & 8.
    There are two spots which are often mistaken as a double cellspots.
    They are actually costal spot 11 & the upper cellspot.

    A lower cellspot may be present especially in the female but is nondiagnostic.

    Tagiades vajuna. FW 19-22mm.
    FW with a spot 3 (ie in space 3) but sometimes absent in dsf.
    HW white patch large, the marginal spots slightly decreasing in size upwards.
    Note female with extra spots ie. lower cellspots & spots 2 & 3.

    Tagiades ultra. FW 19mm.
    Similar to T. vajuna but FW always without a spot 3.
    HW spot 2 may be more noticeably doubled but this can be subjective.
    A lower FW cellspot is present (non-diagnostic).

    Tagiades waterstradti. FW 18mm.
    FW without a spot 3 (except sometimes in the female.)
    HW white area relatively small & marginal spot 1b is 3-4 X that of the other spots.

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 30-Sep-2023 at 09:05 PM.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2016


    Many thanks for the details and confirming my initial thoughts.

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