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  1. #1
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    Thank you Dr Seow!
    Jian Kai

  2. #2
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  3. #3
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    Hi Dr Seow,

    I have been trying to figure out the key ID features for the pavana group Nacadubas, but with not many images available online of live specimens, some of them have been rather challenging, especially N.pendleburyi and N.solta. Would it be possible for you to do an overview of the key IDs? Thank you.

    These are some features I have noted/read, splitting the group into 2, with and without metallic scales in the tornal spot.

    With metallic scales:

    1. N. pactolus
    - FW post-discal band typically straight
    - Submarginal spots quite rectangular
    - HW submarginal spot 6 large, spots 4 & 5 flattened.

    2. N. hermus
    - FW post-discal band typically straight
    - FW submarginal spots chevron shaped
    - HW post-discal band in spaces 4 & 5 very close to HW submarginal band

    3. N. pavana
    - FW post-discal band typically straight, sometimes with dislocations
    - Prominent white 'bar/band' running through submarginal spots
    - Marginal spots bar-like

    4. N. russelli
    - Marginal spots oval/lozenge-shaped
    - Outer margins of submarginal spots pointed

    5. N. angusta (should be distinct enough)
    - Broad and diffused whitish striae
    - Strongly contrasting black submarginal and marginal spots
    - HW submarginal spot 6 large and rounded

    Without metallic scales:

    1. N. sanaya
    - FW post-discal band typically dislocated at vein 6
    - HW post-discal band well separated from HW submarginal band

    2. N. subperusia
    - FW post-discal band gently curved but not markedly dislocated towards costa
    - HW post-discal band in spaces 4 & 5 very close to submarginal band (almost touching)
    - HW submarginal spots strongly concave and dark, contrasting greatly from ground colour

    3. N. pendleburyi
    - FW post-discal band gently curves towards costa
    - HW post-discal band well separated from HW submarginal band

    4. N. solta
    - FW post-discal band straight
    Jian Kai

  4. #4
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    Post 29.
    The 4-line Blues are very difficult to Id from the underside alone in many species and it is likely there were many mis-identifications in the past.
    The dark striae within the bands are important in the Ids.

    A. Dark striae within bands strongly developed ,appearing black.
    Metallic scales on HW tornal spots always strong.

    A1. Nacaduba pavana.
    HW marginasl spots with their inner margins level, 'flat'.
    Female.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check..._female_01.jpg

    A2. Nacaduba russelli.
    HW marginal spots lozenge shaped, ie. with the inner margins oval.
    FW submarginal spots large.
    https://thaibutterflies.com/Butterfl...duba-russelli/
    Some past observations are probably this species.
    These have strong dark striae & should not be N. hermus.
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...370/large.jpeg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...2348/large.jpg


    B. Dark striae within the bands absent or rather weak.

    B1. Nacaduba hermus.
    Dark sriae weak, not blackish.
    Metallic scales in the HW tornal spot often sparse.
    HW submarginal spots 4 & 5 with rounded margins & close to the postdiscal spots/band.
    Males.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...878/large.jpeg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...6496/large.jpg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...1747/large.jpg
    https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...81d68726_c.jpg
    Female.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...343/large.jpeg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...1467/large.jpg


    B2. Nacaduba pactolus.
    White striae buff, enhanced.
    Metallic scales on tornal spot strong.
    HW submarginal spot 6 quadrate & connect sharply to a narrow band formed by submarginal spots 4 & 5; Distinctive.
    Male.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...-%20horace.jpg


    B3.Nacaduba angusta.
    White striae broad & spots dark.
    HW spot 6 large & round.
    Metallic scales in tornal spot strong.
    Female - left.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...20khew%202.jpg


    B4. Nacaduba sanaya.
    No metallic scales on HW tornal spots.
    FW postdiscal spots usually dislocated at vein 6.
    HW postdiscal spots & submarginal spots well separated in space 4 & 5.
    This species present a confusing picture as the spacing in HW space 4 & 5 varies.
    Forms with the HW submarginals & postdiscals in space 4 & 5 spaced apart.(as described in the text.)
    Male & female.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...8753/large.jpg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...4238/large.jpg
    Forms in which HW submarginals & postdiscals are very close.
    Male & female.
    https://www.besgroup.org/wp-content/...i-LenaChow.jpg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...5990/large.jpg

    It is possible some other species are involved but without upperside pix, it is difficult to wrk this out.


    B5 Nacaduba subperusia lysa.
    Ssp lysa is the lowland form recorded in Singapore.
    No metallic scales on HW spot
    HW submarginal spots in space $ & 5 with rounded margins & always close to the postdiscal spots.
    FW postdiscal band less often dislocated.
    Male P. Malaysia.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ToaJYf3xH...0/DSC_2628.JPG
    Female Thailand.
    https://thaibutterflies.com/wp-conte...subperusia.jpg


    B6.Nacaduba pendleburyi
    FW postdiscal band not dislocated.
    HW with the submarginals & postdiscals in space 4 & 5 well separated.
    Upperside with the FW black border a thread & expanded at the apex in the male (Diagnostic.)
    Added: FW marginal & submarginal spots narrow, submarginal spots 4 & 5 pointed.

    B7. Nacaduba solta.
    FW with a very straight postdiscal band as in N. calauria
    This species is not found in Singapore.



    TL Seow: Cheers..

    PS. It is very likely that what was thought to be one variable N. sanaya species in Singapore actually comprise two equally common species, ie. N. sanaya & subperusia..
    Previous use (for comparison) of N. perusia images with only features of dark markings & unbroken postdiscal band ( from neighbourig countries ) is probably untenable.

    PS 2. The two males from Thailand match the image of N. pendleburyi male in C&P4.
    HW with wide spacing of postdiscals & submarginals in space 3, 4, & 5.
    FW marginal & submarginal bands narrow, submarginal spots 4 & 5 pointed.
    https://pamsbutterflies.com/butterfl...-sanaya-elioti

    One observation looks correct for male N. pendleburyi
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/112126841
    Last edited by Psyche; 19-Apr-2023 at 07:34 PM.

  5. #5
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    Thank you for the detailed reply Dr Seow!

    I was looking through some iNaturalist observations and this one seems a little different to me with the way the FW post-discal band curves: https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/71003020
    Could it be N.pendleburyi? Of course without dorsals it is difficult to confirm.

    But it matches quite closely to this observation which was IDed as N.pendleburyi, https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/117297085
    Jian Kai

  6. #6
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    Post 31.

    There is very little correct image of N. pendleburyi
    All known shows the marginal & submarginal spots/bands to be very narrow.
    While the band may be curved in pendleburyi,similar bands are also seen in sanaya & subperusia, & probably several others.
    I would leave it as N. sanaya since the submarginals are large.

    Two images below are definitely N. sanaya males.
    If you use google zoom you can see violet at the apex.
    In N. pendleburyi, it would be black.
    There are examples where the postdiscal band is not dislocated; it would then be curved.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...8753/large.jpg
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...1909/large.jpg


    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 19-Apr-2023 at 09:18 PM.

  7. #7
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    Nacaduba subperusia lysa.
    Examples.
    Cambodia.
    https://geenature.com/taxa/animalia/...ubperusia-lysa
    Thailand.
    https://thaibutterflies.com/Butterfl...uba-superusia/
    P. Malaysia.
    https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-CCzm1ZlQs...rusia+lysa.jpg
    http://nlliew66butterflies.blogspot....uhstorfer.html
    Singapore.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/154051306
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/138368856

    N. sanaya.
    The key indicates that the space between the submarginal & postdiscal spots in HW spaces 4 & 5 should be at least half the width of the postdiscal band.
    This will only allow those in which the submarginals & postdiscals are almost touching to be excluded.
    The FW submarginal spots have mostly convex margins in subperusia & straight margins in sanaya.
    These examples are probably N. sanaya.
    https://www.besgroup.org/wp-content/...i-LenaChow.jpg
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/147389511
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...5068/large.jpg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...3/original.jpg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...3843/large.jpg
    This one seem close enough to suggest N. subperusia.
    The postdiscal band can not be used to confirm an ID.
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...6886/large.jpg

    Some shots with narrow FW peripheral bands & wide HW spacing suggest. N. pendleburyi
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/23644499
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/112126841

    TL Seow; Cheers.

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