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Thread: Skipper ID request

  1. #81
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    Hi Doctor Seow,

    Today's outing brought me low skippers but high number of lascars, pantoporia specifically. I attach inat links once again to ensure quality and clarity.

    1 - P.sandaka? i note the submarginal grey band isnt very thick
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134397320
    p.sandaka1.1.jpgp.sandaka1.2.jpg

    2 - P.sandaka also?
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134398046
    p.sandaka2.1.jpgp.sandaka2.2.jpg

    3 - P.sandaka also? The wings are folded and ive only got this shot
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134397335
    p.sandaka3.1.jpg

    4 - P.hordonia? The submarginal line is much thicker in this one compare to the above two. Inat link has more photo than the ones here, which after downsizing is somewhat blurry on computer end
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134397329
    p.hordonia1.1.jpgp.hordonia1.2.jpg

    5 - borbo cinnara, no hindwing cellspot
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134397353
    borbocinnara.jpg

    6 - p.lubricans? i notice yellow forewing spots but seems a bit wear and tear
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/134397318
    polytremis1.1.jpgpolytremis1.2.jpg

    With regards
    Zicky
    Zick Soh

  2. #82
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    Post 81.

    5 Borbo cinnara. Note also thick antennal club.

    6. Polytremis lubricans male .Note also rough scalings & antenna.

  3. #83
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    Pantoporia in Singapore.

    All five species were recorded in the past in Singapore.
    Two, P. aurelia & dindinga are likely extinct.

    P. paraka have grey -orange FW submarginal bands .

    The other two P. hordonia & sandaka have been widely confused throughout their range.
    Both have an orange FW submarginal band and a grey one inner to it.
    The FW postdiscal spot in space 2 is large with a 'foot' along the lower margin )dorsum)
    The foot is exceptionally latge & long in the male P. sandaka.
    Females of both species do not have an extended foot.
    PANTO5.PNG

  4. #84
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    Pantoporia hordonia hordonia.

    The status of P. hordonia is uncertain in Singapore.
    Possibly it has become extinct, its genes mixed into some population of P. sandaka.

    P. hordonia hordonia.
    FW grey submarginal band wider thanthe orange band typically 2X wider, unbroken & continuous.
    FW orange submarginal band tend to fade at the apex, particularly in the female.Often the orange band is broken or near obsolete.
    Male foot of the postdiscal band small.

    Typical males. P. Malaysia.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6TIVtGI_ok...0/DSC_0229.JPG
    https://alchetron.com/cdn/pantoporia...esize-750.jpeg
    https://a4.pbase.com/g4/25/686825/2/...1.bMw5eaEm.jpg

    Females.
    P. Malaysia.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UsULpFSI_...0/DSC_2572.JPG

    Female P. Malaysia from C&P4.
    PANTO3.PNG

    Thailand.
    https://i.pinimg.com/originals/0a/f2...fd389661b5.jpg
    Cambodia.
    https://www.funet.fi/pub/sci/bio/lif...rdonia-1xu.jpg
    Java.
    https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.jungl...llOUX2YXdTg%3D
    Last edited by Psyche; 12-Sep-2022 at 01:31 AM.

  5. #85
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    Pantoporia sandaka sandaka.
    FW with the orange band intact & prominent.
    The grey band is is much reduced, broken or beaded in the male.
    Male with a large foot to the postdiscal spot.
    Female is rather variable.
    FW submarginal band usually expanded at the apex.
    Grey band may be broken, but can be prominent.

    Typical males.
    P.Malaysia.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c8rXTibfeq...0/DSC_0137.JPG
    Singapore.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uNRH3neo0...ascar-Fed3.jpg
    https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1187/...dbdb16cd75.jpg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...2610/large.jpg


    Females.
    With the grey band broken or narrow as in the male.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...erick%20Ho.jpg
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...wsiRg&usqp=CAU

    More often the grey band is wider, causing a lot of confusion with P. hordonia.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7...Lascar@MNT.jpg
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...278/large.jpeg
    Female specimen(Singapore) in Natural History Museum Uk.
    https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/i...fMpoo&usqp=CAU

    Female (P. Malaysia) from C&P4.
    SNIP6.PNG

  6. #86
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    1, 2, & 3 are typical male Pantoporia sandaka sandaka.

    Note in 3 the closeness of the submarginal orange band to the other spots & the long 'foot'.



    4. In the past I would have quickly conclude this typical P. hordonia based on the wide grey band.
    Consider the following facts.
    1. There are a dozen or so identifiable male P. sandaka , but not a single male specimen of P. hordonia have been observed I believed for more than 20 years.
    The last recognisable P. hordonia males appear to be these two.
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-eHnx5jNOl...ascar-KSK5.jpg
    https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oiSX3-kyP...ascar-KSK4.jpg

    The identification of the species is based on the male.
    Without a single observation of a confirmed male P. hordonia, 4 is likely to be a female P. sandaka.
    Note the orange band does not fade out at the apex.


    TL Seow; Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 14-Sep-2022 at 09:37 PM.

  7. #87
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    Additional note.

    The male of P. sandaka have a large white speculum ( a patch of specialised scales) on the HW.
    This is largely hidden at rest.
    It is sometimes seen as a white highlight indicating its lower margin.
    SANdO.png

    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c8rXTibfeq...0/DSC_0137.JPG

    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-uNRH3neo0...ascar-Fed3.jpg



    TL Seow: Cheers.

  8. #88
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    Additional notes.

    Males Pantoporia hordonia in P. Malaysia.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/65613884
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/102652739
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/132162011
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/128243266

    Dsf variant with wide markings & grey band narrowed.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/132919980


    Two female P. hordonia.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/2635944
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/19028878


    Male P. sandaka. Note white line/highlight on HW.
    https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/124081180


    These images should help identify P. hordonia in Singapore.

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 12-Sep-2022 at 05:45 PM.

  9. #89
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    Thank you so much doctor Seow for such a insightful explanation! Words cannot express the feeling i have now but i find it extremely helpful! But this eans i still have to keep looking for p.hordonia somewhere in SG

    Regards
    Zicky
    Zick Soh

  10. #90
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    Dear Doctor Seow,

    i have return with the classic skipper ID, which today i am confident of the one i require help with. Please correct any mistake shall you spot any

    1 - p.omaha
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135350918
    p.omaha1.1.jpgp.omaha1.2.jpg

    2 - p.lubricans, but seems very yellowish brown
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135350953
    p.lubricans1.1.jpgp.lunricans1.2.jpg

    3 - t.colon. I decided t.colon base on forewing space 4 and 5. The colour seems deeper than the usual, but i concluded it is simply a worn out individual
    inat link - https://www.inaturalist.org/observations/135350954
    t.colon1.1.jpgt.colon1.2.jpgt.colon1.3.jpg

    Skipping regards!
    Zicky
    Zick Soh

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