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Thread: Butterfly ID request (Singapore)

  1. #1

    Default Butterfly ID request (Singapore)

    Hi Dr Seow,

    I shot these two Rapala sp. and am confused between dieneces and suffusa. Thank you!

    1.
    photo1656571537.jpeg

    2.
    photo1656571537 (1).jpeg
    photo1656571537 (2).jpeg
    Jian Kai

  2. #2
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    Both are Rapala damona males.

    The extent of the red area on the HW basal half is totally blocked by the left FW.
    The black veins which is only prominent in the marginal zone is common to all three species R. dieneces, damona & cowani.


    Four species in the dieneces group occur in Singapore.
    Underside HW postdiscal band in space 1b is an arch, dome or a loop.
    They may be grouped into two.


    A. FW postdiscal band curved or bends towards the costa.


    A1. Rapala suffusa.
    Upperside male red patch suffused brown with the margins diffuse.
    Male underside pale brownish to yellow.Female yellow.
    HW orange crown absent, being yellow & blend into the ground colour; no diffusion of orange or yellow into adjacent areas ie space 3 & 4.
    Males.
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4183/3...2df61430_c.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...h_Jonathan.jpg
    https://c2.staticflickr.com/8/7376/9...452d3eda_b.jpg
    Females.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...Sunny-Chir.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...lash_Ellen.jpg
    http://a4.pbase.com/g9/25/686825/2/1...5.sRe8z1wO.jpg

    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4i/83970001.html
    India.
    https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/si...069031-1_0.jpg

    A2 .Rapala damona.
    This was only discovered when an upperside shot of the HW shows the extensive red area ,where in dieneces the HW basal half is black.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/showt...apala-dieneces

    Male underside ochreous brown, female ochreous, orange crown weak, diffusion of orange/yellow into space 3 & 4 as in dieneces.
    Male
    https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4683/...dd77b589_c.jpg
    Probable female.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-66Xxi-yYP...ash-SunnyC.png
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4i/84000001.html



    B, FW postdiscal band straight, at most slight curved at the upper end.


    B1. Rapala dieneces.
    HW Postdiscal band orange brown
    HW orange crown more distinct; diffusion of orange/yellow into adjacent areas prominent.
    Male variously light brown; female pale biege brown to yellow brown.
    Males.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...ash---Khew.jpg
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Nq8JtCdenz...rlet+Flash.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...ult_M_5a_c.jpg
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Wn8O6uNMU...0/DSC_7383.JPG
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...571/large.jpeg

    Females.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...20-%20Chng.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check..._female_01.jpg
    https://wanderingbutterflyeffect.fil...19579a860b.jpg
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4i/84010001.html



    B2.Rapala cowani
    Underside distinctly grey.
    Postdiscal band blackish or dark grey. orange crown a thin ring.
    Now only known from Pulau Ubin.
    Male.
    .https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...et_1939_PT.jpg

    Pulau Ubin.
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...468/large.jpeg
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...517/large.jpeg



    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 02-Jul-2022 at 03:27 PM.

  3. #3

    Default

    Thank you Dr Seow! It was quite a gloomy day so getting the uppersides was very unlikely, that partial shot was when it was spooked by the flash.
    Jian Kai

  4. #4
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    It is great you got these clear beautiful shots.

    Rapala damona may not be as rare as thought.
    In the past they were thought to be R. suffusa variants.

    This one below is probably R. damona. Correction ;R. suffusa.
    https://alanowyong.files.wordpress.c...-001.jpg?w=604



    TL Seow: Cheers.
    Last edited by Psyche; 01-Jul-2022 at 10:13 PM.

  5. #5

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    Hi Dr Seow,

    I was comparing the undersides for the 3 Rapala sp. and I noticed damona seems to have a larger 'blue' tonal spot that reaches (or very close to) the hind wing post-discal line, while the other two the same 'blue' spot is about half the size and does not reach the line. Would this be a reliable feature to distinguish between damona and the other two? Would like to hear your opinions, thank you!
    Jian Kai

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by LJK1410 View Post
    Hi Dr Seow,

    I was comparing the undersides for the 3 Rapala sp. and I noticed damona seems to have a larger 'blue' tonal spot that reaches (or very close to) the hind wing post-discal line, while the other two the same 'blue' spot is about half the size and does not reach the line. Would this be a reliable feature to distinguish between damona and the other two? Would like to hear your opinions, thank you!
    You have a point here.

    I used to quote this blue grey speckled patch, but get confused by conflicting images on the web.

    However, in Singapore it seem quite consistent .
    In other region it is not so large but still somewhat larger than in suffusa.

    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4i/84000001.html
    http://yutaka.it-n.jp/lyc4i/83970001.html


    Here is the valid female Rapala damona.
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...9554/large.jpg


    This which I thought might be damona is R. suffusa. The two tone browner FW & yellower HW is seen in some R. suffusa males. See Yutaka website.
    https://alanowyong.files.wordpress.c...-001.jpg?w=604
    There are others which looks intermediates.


    TL Seow: Cheers.

  7. #7
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    A large speckled patch filling space 1b in the HW marginal zone is a consistent feature in R. damona.

    This is seen in Borneo ie. Otsuka's Borneo Lycaenids & in the Andaman here.
    https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/rapala-damona


    The feature is not absolute. In some it is smaller but still filling 60-70 % of the area.
    In R. suffusa the speckled patch rarely fill more than half the areain space 1b.



    TL Seow: Cheers.

  8. #8
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    Hi, Dr. Seow,

    The key in C&P4 also mentions the origin of hindwing vein 6 as diagnostic for damona (according to them it arises near the middle of the radial vein, but in dieneces, it originates near the apex of the cell). They don't mention anything about this vein concerning suffusa but based on my scrutiny of various photos of suffusa, it appears that it also doesn't share this peculiarity with damona

    Turning now to Jian Kai's shots, it appears that one of them (with partial dorsal) appears to have vein 6 arising from the middle of the radial vein and would thus conform with damona, but the other does not have this feature

    So i'm wondering if there are actually two species here- with the first being suffusa and the second ,damona. This would also explain the apparent difference in ground colour between them.

    Eager to hear your thoughts!
    Aaron Soh

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by atronox View Post
    Hi, Dr. Seow,

    The key in C&P4 also mentions the origin of hindwing vein 6 as diagnostic for damona (according to them it arises near the middle of the radial vein, but in dieneces, it originates near the apex of the cell). They don't mention anything about this vein concerning suffusa but based on my scrutiny of various photos of suffusa, it appears that it also doesn't share this peculiarity with damona

    Turning now to Jian Kai's shots, it appears that one of them (with partial dorsal) appears to have vein 6 arising from the middle of the radial vein and would thus conform with damona, but the other does not have this feature

    So i'm wondering if there are actually two species here- with the first being suffusa and the second ,damona. This would also explain the apparent difference in ground colour between them.

    Eager to hear your thoughts!


    I was confused by those lines long ago & have never given them much thoughts.
    Now that you brought it up I realised it need to be scrutinised.


    First about the venation.
    Typically in the HW, veins 4 & 6 forms the end of the cell. vein 5 arise from the discocellular or cross veins .
    Only vein 7 arise from the radius or upper arm of the cell.
    https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-rghIZWAF0...einspaces1.jpg

    The line in the key or C&P 4/5 refers to vein 7, as it is the only vein arising from the radius. Vein 6 is essentially an extension of the radius.
    This line seem to have been misplaced & misapplied.

    In R. damona vein 7 arise close to vein 6, from the apex (highest point) of the cell.
    This can be seen in these valid examples of R. damona
    https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/si...b5225641-2.jpg
    https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4683/...dd77b589_c.jpg


    It is in R. dieneces that vein 7 arise from the middle (or near it) of the radius (upper arm) of the HW cell.
    This can be seen in the examples.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...ash---Khew.jpg
    https://static.inaturalist.org/photo...571/large.jpeg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...959/large.jpeg
    https://inaturalist-open-data.s3.ama...5691/large.jpg



    TL Seow: Cheers.
    PS. The venation of R. suffusa have HW vein 7 at the highest point (apex) & close to vein 6 much as in R. damona.
    https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4183/3...2df61430_c.jpg
    https://a4.pbase.com/g9/25/686825/2/...5.sRe8z1wO.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...lash_Ellen.jpg
    Last edited by Psyche; 03-Jul-2022 at 09:47 AM.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    The line in the key or C&P 4/5 refers to vein 7, as it is the only vein arising from the radius. Vein 6 is essentially an extension of the radius.
    This line seem to have been misplaced & misapplied.
    I don't think this is correct? The Comstock system includes vein 6 as part of the medial veins, separate from the radial vein: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...a/figures?lo=1 (fig. 6-1)(vein 6 is vein M1 in Comstock notation). Thus vein 6 cannot be an extension of the radius. The radial vein is the entire length of vein 7, including the upper length of the cell. The key would make a lot more sense if interpreted in this way. If interpreted in the way that you described, the origin of vein 7 would not have any discernible difference in each species

    What i believe they actually mean in the key, is that in damona vein 6 is confluent with the upper vein forming the cell (joint to it as a seamless wire), and this single branch originates from the middle of vein 7. But in the other spp. vein 6 does not meet the upper vein of the cell, instead branching off from near the cell apex, so they are two separate units.

    The confusion arises because they fail to mention this confluence, which to me is very important as it aids visually in understanding what is actually happening in the venation at that crucial area

    So i strongly believe this is what they actually meant, because then
    1. the key would make sense,
    2. this would agree with Comstock notation, and
    3. this would explain the differences in venation seen in all the images (that would also mean that many images of each species are potentially not correct- for example the second and third links under dieneces that you gave clearly show this minute difference in that area)

    Cheers! Thoughts and corrections always welcome!
    Aaron Soh

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