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Thread: ID help please

  1. #41
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    I can't see no. 2 as antimuta because in antimuta spot 7 is always on top of spot 6 though in various ways.
    There are many good examples from Singapore before.
    Following the key it ends up as a muta/moorei.

    3& 4 are interesting because spot 4 & 5 are partially out of line (in line in no. 2) and the dislocation at vein 2 is wide ,with a gap especially in no. 4.
    The wide dislocation suggest A. kurzi but the UpF wider border is that of A. muta.
    The upperside with the FW darker & the HW lighter is as for most A. muta.

    The spot shape & arrangement are probably variants from different colonies.


    TL Seow: Cheers.

  2. #42
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    Thanks Aaron and Dr Seow.

    Dr Seow, after looking through C&P4 today I can appreciate how similar A. muta and A. moorei are. However, I noticed a feature of A. moorei is that the FW upperside border is wider than the HW, a feature I believe is shown in Arhopala no. 4 (I hope I am not over-simplifying matters!) However, I still cannot appreciate which features are important in deciding the species or not.

    Could you educate me on the ways of separating these species? (and would you be confident in assigning IDs to the Arhopalas 2, 3 and 4?)
    Thanks very much!
    cheers
    Jonathan
    http://nypsbluebottle.blogspot.com/
    --- nothing happens by coincidence - everything is DESTINY ---

  3. #43
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    The ID of these Arhopala are very difficult without seeing the upperside.
    Although no2 , 3, & 4 looks different they could all be one species, merely from different colonies.

    Arhopala metamuta; FW deepviolet blue; HW bright greenish blue : female bright blue with HW border wider than female A. muta.
    UnF spot 2 & 3 with their margins aligned.
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...91_4_Fitch.png

    A. muta: Male FW violet blue; HW paler blue or only partially /basally .Female bright purple blue with wider border, (HW border narrower than in F. metamuta).
    UnFc spot 2 & 3 partially dislocated & out of alignment.

    A. moorei Male both wings violet blue ; female duller purple blue than female muta.
    Underside FW spot 2 & 3 partially dislocated as in A. muta.

    Unfortunately there is a lot of confusion with these species.

    Here is a good one.
    1. female A. muta .2. Female A. moorei 3. Male A. muta & 4 female A. muta.
    http://v3.boldsystems.org/index.php/...e?taxid=106870

    There are a lot of mixedup on the net.
    There is also confusion with A. hypomuta, the female with very broad borders.
    In A. hypomuta the FW spot 4 is dislocated & shifted out (as in A atosia).HW sometimes with a spot at the base of space 6.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arhopa...aMFUpUnAC1.jpg

    Back to the three.
    Usual A. muta/moorei underside.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...e-HoraceT2.jpg

    No. 2 is unusually pale & diffrent, with smaller spots. Possibly A. metamuta.

    3 & 4 . They are probably from the same colony. The wide dislocation of the postdiscal band at vein 2 is unusual.
    The upperside with difference in FW & HW indicate it is A. muta .


    TL Seow: Cheers.

  4. #44
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    Many thanks for the correction and pointers. I completely forgot about that feature in antimuta.

    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    The wide dislocation suggest A. kurzi but the UpF wider border is that of A. muta.
    I had thought of kurzi but ruled that out because Jonathan said it was very small. If i recall correctly kurzi is the size of amphimuta. It is supposed to occur in Singapore though
    Aaron Soh

  5. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by atronox View Post

    I had thought of kurzi but ruled that out because Jonathan said it was very small. If i recall correctly kurzi is the size of amphimuta. It is supposed to occur in Singapore though
    A kurzi's measurement FW 18-22mm. the lower figure is within the range of muta/moorei.
    Tantalizing but FW spot 3 is usually wide (ie elongate horizontally) in A. kurzi.

    Quite a number of these small species in Singapore have probably been overlooked.


    TL Seow: Cheers.

  6. #46
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    Aaron, Dr Seow, A. kurzi was exactly what I was hoping it was. That was until I saw the upperside, which immediately dispelled that.

    Regarding all these small Arhopala species, I would believe most of them exist in small, localised colonies, such as the one I encountered, rather than merely being overlooked. Even for a rather casual observer like myself, the unusual size of these Arhopalas from the muta subgroup and such is enough to create a lot of interest in the field. They seem to have very beautiful uppersides too. I am curious about how A. metamuta would appear in flight! They are more likely to be investigated than perhaps, a medium sized Arhopala, which may likely be the usual species (A. epimuta, A major etc.)

    Either that, or I've just not been observant enough to spot them all these years!

    Also, thanks for all the explanations about these species. I really learnt a lot. I will work harder to get corresponding upperside shots for my Arhopala in the future!
    cheers
    Jonathan
    http://nypsbluebottle.blogspot.com/
    --- nothing happens by coincidence - everything is DESTINY ---

  7. #47
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    A few more Arhopala...


    1) Medium size, heavily cropped


    2) Medium size, heavily cropped. A. amphimuta?


    3) Medium size. A. major?


    4) Medium size, heavily cropped. Is this A. epimuta?




    I'm assuming there is only one Chersonesia species in Singapore, Chersonesia peraka peraka. Is it possible to determine sex for this species?
    cheers
    Jonathan
    http://nypsbluebottle.blogspot.com/
    --- nothing happens by coincidence - everything is DESTINY ---

  8. #48
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    Dr Seow, Aaron, a few more skippers for consideration:

    1)





    2)



    3)



    4) Parnara sp?


    5) Parnara sp?



    Thanks!!!
    cheers
    Jonathan
    http://nypsbluebottle.blogspot.com/
    --- nothing happens by coincidence - everything is DESTINY ---

  9. #49
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    Post 47.

    This is a strange one The UnH is that of A athada but the upperside is dark with the border a thread.
    Possibly A. aroa.

    .Arhopala athada. Variable in size, medium to large.
    HW submarginal & posdiscal bands well separated. V spot well form; spot 6 typically astride spot 5 & cellend bar.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...-%20horace.jpg
    https://ms.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arhopa...thadaMUpUn.jpg

    Arhopala aroa ; submarginal & postdiscal band well-separated (as in athada)
    HW spot 6 usually narrower below. Upperside deeper & darker violet than all other alea subgroup member.
    FW termen rounded.
    No proper image on web
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...9_2_Knight.png


    2. Possibility A. zylda , stubbsi & avathina. Correction avathina is out as its HW postdiscal band is completely dislocated.
    The HW have no tooth at vein 2. HW postdiscal band is only partially dislocated at vein 2 ie the 'V' spot 1b overlaps spot 2.
    This effecitvely eliminate A. kurzi, & metamuta/muta/moorei.

    A. avathina has n FW basal cellspot (seem to have one just visible here.) Correction: avathina is out.

    3. A. major.

    4. A. epimuta ;note tornal white cilial dot; FW spot 4 dislocated outwards.

    5, Chersonesia paraka female; Female have rounded FW.
    Male & female.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...1%20110908.jpg
    https://img00.deviantart.net/e81b/i/...ei-d6c8m3a.jpg
    Last edited by Psyche; 04-Oct-2018 at 10:15 PM.

  10. #50
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    Post 48.

    1. Polytremis lubricans :FW cellspot often conjoined; Spot 2 is particularly large, ofte with a rounded inner margin.

    Telicotas are often confusing with their colour in photos.

    2. & 3. Male Telicota besta .Too orangey here. HW band crossed by dark-dusted veins.
    Male with upperside confirmation.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-NbpYa8XexN...0/DSC_0294.JPG

    Similar
    T. linna duller ochreous ;veins not dark-dusted underparts paler.
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-7aMywOHZI...TL_male_03.jpg

    T. augias ;veins not dark-dusted; strongly tawny orange.
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Hp7OPF_eJ6...as-augias).jpg

    4. male & % female Parnara bada. Note the female here has a HW cellspot but at the end (diffrent from Pelopidas.)
    Note thich stubby antennal club.; HW no cellspot or at the cellend: HW spots irregular & small, variable number. often decreasing in size upwards.


    TL Seow: Cheers.

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