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Thread: Pantoporia sandaka sandaka?

  1. #1
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    Default Pantoporia sandaka sandaka?

    Based on previous discussions, i believe this is P. sandaka rather than hordonia.

    In addition to the distinguishing traits already mentioned before, i also notice that the orange discal band on the forewing and at the apical area of the forewing are more "neatly bordered" and appear more regularly-shaped in sandaka but i don't think this is a very constant feature.

    Taken in USR

    Pantoporia best cropped resized-min.jpg
    Aaron Soh

  2. #2
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    This is a typical Pantoporia sandaka sandaka male.
    FW grey band is constricted into a series of beads.
    The FW is raised high enough to show a white line denoting the margin of the HW white speculum.

    The two species have been a source of great confusion through their ranges.

    The typical male P. hordonia have a wider grey band & the HW speculum is grey & small.
    Cambodoa.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_qBpElQKbmz...%25BC%2591.jpg
    Malaya.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6TIVtGI_ok...0/DSC_0229.JPG
    http://www.learnaboutbutterflies.com...nia%20001a.jpg
    Singapore.
    http://www.samuibutterflies.com/02_i...iadindinga.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oiSX3-kyPR...ascar-KSK4.jpg
    Example approaching P. sandaka Thailand.
    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-P...mphalidae..JPG


    P. sandaka ;FW grey band much narrowed or constricted/broken into beads.
    Malaya.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c8rXTibfeq...0/DSC_0137.JPG
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-N4hHveKQt1...0/DSC_0131.JPG
    Singapore .Note white highlight on HW.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-76dEIhRQ1Y...mon+Lascar.jpg


    The females of the two are very similar & confusing here.
    Horace raised a batch in which the male can be identified by the HW white speculum as P. sandaka but the female appeared like the male P. hordonia.

    Females. The FW is raised high enough to ID the sex & very short foot of FW postdiscal band.
    P. sandaka. FW grey band beaded.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...erick%20Ho.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...6_puddling.jpg

    Uncertain females.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...L_adult_04.jpg
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7...Lascar@MNT.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7...a-hordonia.jpg

    Examples females P. hordonia
    Indonesia.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ELNd5T1m_G...IMG_7404e1.JPG
    https://storage.googleapis.com/indon...ordonia-00.jpg
    India.
    https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5546/1...36d38acb_b.jpg

    Female P. sandaka India.
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...ravoor_(3).jpg
    https://farm7.staticflickr.com/6113/...6e95b2f1_b.jpg

    All five Pantoporia are recorded from Singapore in the past.

    This one which I ID'ed as P. dindinga & later rejected looks good to be it.
    It is a female & the two marginal bands are greyish & diffrent from P. paraka.
    https://wanderingbutterflyeffect.fil...43f326860e.jpg
    https://no.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pantop...diga_303_2.jpg
    P. paraka.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...20-%20Bene.jpg
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7...ascar%2529.jpg

    P. aurelia could be mistaken for the common Lasippa tiga.
    Thailand.
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/wp-c...1-1080x675.jpg

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    https://www.thaibutterflies.com/wp-c...1-1080x675.jpg
    Last edited by Psyche; 19-Mar-2018 at 11:08 AM.

  3. #3
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    Default

    Thank you so much for all the links for comparison.

    Yes, the speculum and the width of the grey submarginal band were the main things which made me think it was sandaka. I have seen hordonia before but this is the first time i've seen sandaka. Thx Dr Seow!

    The P. dindinga looks very promising
    Aaron Soh

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by atronox View Post
    Hi, Dr Seow, this should be typical hordonia then?

    Attachment 25248

    All your latest post' images do not appear on screen.

    TL Seow: Cheers.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psyche View Post
    All your latest post' images do not appear on screen.

    TL Seow: Cheers.
    This is weird. All my attachments have mysteriously disappeared and i don't seem able to reup them. I'll try again tmr
    Aaron Soh

  6. #6
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    Default

    Ok so after some experimentation, it seems like the only way i can attach images is by using the Flickr BBCodes. What's very interesting is that it only works for BBCode- if i were to add the HTML image codes to just the image url from Flickr, it cannot display.

    That probably means something is wrong with the way the site reads the HTML tags... and only for my account LOL



    Sorry for rambling. Dr Seow, is this hordonia?
    Aaron Soh

  7. #7
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    Aaron, nothing to do with the butterfly, but it's the same for me. I've always used BBC code for as long as I was using Flickr!
    cheers
    Jonathan
    http://nypsbluebottle.blogspot.com/
    --- nothing happens by coincidence - everything is DESTINY ---

  8. #8
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    Post 6.

    Yes this looks right as a female P. hordonia.
    The female has the termen straight in the middle portion ,while in the male it is concave. The foot of the postdiscal band can varies in P. hordonia male.

    It is necessary to look for examples from Singapore & Malaya as there are wide variations from other countries.
    Most features are not absolute & there is always some variants. Bear in mind also interbreeding between closely allied species always happen.
    Since only wsf occur here, dsf will not be described.

    P. hordonia hordonia. Widespread throughout continental Asia ,India to SE Asia.
    FW submarginal grey band often broader than orange band ,usually intact from top to bottom.
    Orange band typically very narrow & often broken, usually do not reach the costa.
    Foot of male FW postdiscal band variable often smaller & shorter.
    Malaya.
    http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-6TIVtGI_ok...0/DSC_0229.JPG
    https://rosliomarfotografi.com/wp-co..._9747.web_.JPG
    https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-UsULpFSI_...0/DSC_2572.JPG
    Female pix very rare.
    India ssp. hordonia.Note R FW is raised high enough & there is no grey speculum.
    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...mon_Lascar.jpg
    Indonesia ?ssp.
    http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-ELNd5T1m_G...IMG_7404e1.JPG
    Male .Singapore; Suspect female but orange band reaches costa .
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oiSX3-kyPR...ascar-KSK4.jpg
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_0EK80AsaR7...a-hordonia.jpg

    P. sandaka sandaka. Ssp sandaka P. Malaysia & Borneo.
    FW submarginal orange band intact & continuous, & typically reach the costa.
    FW grey band narrow usually not wider than orange band, constricted at veins, beaded & may be broken.
    FW male postdiscal band's foot typically large & long.
    HW male white speculum may be visible.
    Malaya male.
    http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-c8rXTibfeq...0/DSC_0137.JPG
    Singapore males.
    http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_rzo8wjfyCs...erick_02_c.jpg
    https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1187/...dbdb16cd75.jpg
    Singapore females.
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...erick%20Ho.jpg
    http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...6_puddling.jpg



    TL Seow: Cheers.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Banded Yeoman View Post
    Aaron, nothing to do with the butterfly, but it's the same for me. I've always used BBC code for as long as I was using Flickr!
    I might actually have no choice but to embed with Flickr BBCodes from now on. I didn't previously because Flickr images display best at their original size(resizing affects resolution because raster graphics). So when embedded on the forum the images can be quite large so for ease of viewing i preferred to have one set of raw images for Flickr and separate resized and compressed batch for the forums but it looks like i can save some time now since i don't have to do that
    Aaron Soh

  10. #10
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    Thanks Dr Seow. I'm now quite confident sorting out these two
    Aaron Soh

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