Kaeng Krachan NP., Thailand - 26/27 January 2014

[Psyche]

Thank you.


Re 1 & 2, they are the same specimen! The colour on the underside is odd, but I put it down to the lighting conditions at the time. From the upperside, I had suspected N. nata (I have the wrong ssp. on my site and must change it!).

I have a question regarding Antonio's photo of N. cartica. The hindwing discal band does not reach space 7. I thought that it did in N. cartica, but not in N. magadha. Also, vein 6 is darkened and vein 5 partially so (if only just).

I was looking at 1 & 2 for some time wondering are they supposed to be the same?
This was because in 2 the cell-bar & cellend spot are broader.
Since they are the same individual it is Neptis nata.

Regarding Antonio's shot I have initially placed it as N. magadha precisely because the HW discal band did not reach the costa (no white shading even).
However, after switching to N. cartica I began to have some doubts because even in examples of cartica, where the band does not quite reach the costa there are some white dashes.

However, all Thai examples of Thai N. magadha seem to have the HW discal band's veins darkened.
Also the HW postdiscal series of spots are larger & more quadrate .

The broad white basal costal band placed it as one of these two species.
I have not seen the underside of the Malayan ssp. charon of N. magadha.

TL Seow
PS . The underside of Antonio's shot is a match for Neptis magadha charon from Malaya.
http://img5.blogs.yahoo.co.jp/ybi/1/...1145_6188177_0

[Angiud]

About that Neptis I have an upperside shot I'll post ASAP (busy time over here..)

[Psyche]

This earlier shot looks good for P. sandaka davidsoni dsf.
The FW postdiscal 'head' has a similar thick neck & the HW band widens sharply at the inner margin.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/attac...3&d=1392335197

DSf P. sandaka davidsoni from Bhutan
http://www.projectnoah.org/spottings/21393107

Not too sure about the 2nd shot. Taken at a different date?
http://www.butterflycircle.com/attac...2&d=1392335195

Typical Malayan P. sandaka sandaka.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-VJ58MK0t4k...0/DSC_0127.JPG
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-N4hHveKQt1...0/DSC_0131.JPG

This Indian shot captioned as P. sandaka because of the large foot is probably dsf P. hordonia.(Note thick grey band.)
http://www.flutters.org/home/photoga...al_goswami.jpg

TL Seow

[Painted Jezebel]

Not too sure about the 2nd shot. Taken at a different date?

Same date and place, though plainly different specimens. The greater marginal orange markings caught my attention.

[Psyche]

The monsoon in India runs from June to September.
This shot of P. sandaka davidsoni taken in April is typical dsf with the greater marginal orange shading.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/balakri...il/4366756386/

This shot taken in June should be the wsf.
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/med...unte_aa857.jpg

Note in the sandaka male the 2 notches on the FW cell-bar tends to be obliterated (not always).

I would expect the orange bands in KK to be a tad narrower than that in India as sandaka in Malaya have narrow bands.

The submarginal grey band in hordonia seems to vary a fair bit in width.
The bigfoot/smallfoot difference seem to be more relevant in Sundaland.

After all these I beginning to have some doubt again whether the two shots are P. sandaka.
My resevation is based on the following observations.
1. The grey band is intact & uninterrupted. (orange marginal shading is common in dsf.)
2. The two notches on the FW cell-bar are present.
3. There is no hint or glint of white on the HW to suggest there is a white speculum.(Admittedly the FWS are low on the HWs.)

The plus point is that the broadness of the main band is very suggestive of P. sandaka.

TL Seow
PS. Indian P. hordonia hordonia.Male ,Female.
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/med...unte_aa859.jpg
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/med...ekar_ab212.jpg
Mating pair of P. sandaka davidsoni. Note male below have the notches on the cell-bar obsolete.
http://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/med..._7/a-28740.jpg

[Psyche]

After comparing with valid reginal shots of male P. hordonia I am now quite convinced both are indeed P. sandaka males.

P. hrdonia from the regions here.
Thailand male, your own.
http://www.samuibutterflies.com/02_i...nia/male.r.jpg
Female.
http://www.norththailandbirding.com/...ae/b2560_1.JPG
Malaya male.
http://www.zonacharrua.com/butterfli...nia%20001a.jpg
Laos male.
http://www.neutron.phys.ethz.ch/Lepi...e/IMG_1728.JPG

These are the normal form (It is probably unwise to call them wsf.)
The dsf if it occur tends to have more marginal orange shading. (perhaps the band may be a little wider.)

The difference becomes obvious in comparison.
The sandaka davidsoni male have a mch broader discal band.
The grey band is narrower with constrictions along the veins.
The FW postdiscal band's 'foot' is much thicker.

TL Seow
PS. Examples of the male P. sandaka davidsoni from nearby regions.
Angkor, Cambodia.
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...725960003).jpg
HongKong. Correction :This pix is actually from Kerala, India.
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-gi3dw1MEU1...mon_Lascar.jpg

[Painted Jezebel]

Thank you very much for all the time and trouble you have taken over this confusing matter.

[Psyche]

Thank you very much for all the time and trouble you have taken over this confusing matter.

Not at all. I have wanted to solve this puzzle for some time.
I suspect intermediates occur from time to time.

The male genitalia are similar, & so identification is based on superficial characters alone (unless someone does DNA studies).

The most puzzling is the Taiwanese taxon rihodona as P. hordonia rihodona.
It looks like it could be P. sandaka. There is only one species of Pantoporia there.
http://www.7stareco.org.tw/4road/567...7%E6%94%9D.jpg
http://image.digitalarchives.tw/Imag...0/6e/07/33.jpg

TL Seow
PS. This Bulletin of the British Museum by Eliot indicates P. hordonia rihodona occur in HK, Hainan & Taiwan.
Also P. sandakan davidsoni extend to Hainan but is absent from Taiwan.
http://archive.org/stream/bulletinof...ge/34/mode/1up

[moloch]

Wow, love that Odina decorata! What a gorgeous skipper.

The Jeweled Nawab was stunning, Antonio.

Looks like you guys had a great time.

Regards,
David

[Angiud]

With a long delay, I post the upperside of the possible Neptis magadha/cartica, hoping in a solution:


Unidentified Neptis