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Greetings for the Festival of Lights - Happy Deepawali Dr. Seow
Can this be identified as Pelopidas mathias? Shot at our Home, Mangalore, Karnataka State, South India, West Coast.
I notice these : UN brown uneven, with paler marginal areas
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4866/...b1e3ac71_m.jpg20181112-IMG_5455 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
I do agree it is Pelopidas mathias.
It does get tricky in some cases.
Here are examples of Indian P. agna & mathias.
P. mathias male.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...asambe_(2).jpg
Female .Taken in Africa. P. mathias occur throughout sub-Saharan Africa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pelopidas_sp.jpg
P. mathias female India.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...88e37405-1.jpg
P. agna males.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelopi...18_09_2012.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...gale_ak890.jpg
P. agna female.
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...a_20140621.jpg
TL Seow: Cheers.
Dr. T L Seow Sir,
What will be the id key pointer for Pelopidas thrax, mathias, agna. Please guide.
This is a tough one.Quote:
Originally Posted by butterflyrajib
I will like to know first if P. thrax is found in South India .
From the book it seem to be Pakistan ,Punjab, Delhi to Sikkim & Manipur (as ssp masta).
From the underside it is very similar to P. mathias with white shadings.
It will be necessary to determine if images from S. India are P. thrax or P. mathias dsf.
TL Seow: Cheers.
PS. I presume P. thrax may have been recorded in your area ,West Bengal.
Thanks for the identification of original Image posted by me Dr Seow.
Even I am interested in the question of our good friend Rajib.
Let us assume we have UP view along with UN view also.
How can we differentiate between the three species? P. mathias, P. agna, P.thrax.
Broad guidelines also sufficient now.
No. We do not have P. thrax in South India.
Synoptic Catalogue (Varshney and Smetacek) says
221. Pelopidas thrax (Huebner, [1821]) Small Branded Swift
i. Pelopidas thrax masta Evans, 1949
Sikkim to N.E. India.
ii. Pelopidas thrax thrax (Huebner, [1821])
Jammu & Kashmir to Delhi & Gujarat.
We have heard of reported presence of Pelopidas thrax masta occurence in West Bengal, but it is not confirmed by voucher copy and genitalia studies. Hence we do not have confirmation as of now. The reports are based on images. So we would like to understand pictorial id first before more evidence can be found.
I think they can be ID'ed especially with fresh individuals.
Pelopidas thrax; P thrax thrax ,Mediterranean to Delhi. ssp masta Sikkim & Manipur.
1.Male brand whitish.
2 .FW upper cellspot often teardrop shape ( horizontally).
3. UnH spots distinctly margined with dark brown; some spots reduced to dark rings.
4. Underpart of body ie. head, thorax, & abdomen strongly whitish.
5. Ssp mastaUnH spots mostly dark rings except spots 4 & 5.
Greek islands.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile...2007-Right.png
http://www.pyrgus.de/Pelopidas_thrax_en.html
Turkey
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-eccwOVlYqY..._2649%252B.jpg
There are pix in which the marginal areas are pale shaded much as in P. mathias from S. India, but the pix are from Africa.
Nigeria.
http://tolweb.org/Pelopidas_thrax
P. agna.
1 UpF male with spot 2 & 3 very narrow & rectangular .
2. Male brand dark.
3. UnH uniformly ochreous brown .
4. UnH spots not dark-ringed.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...Saji_ac952.jpg
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...18_09_2012.jpg
female
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...a_20140621.jpg
Pelopidas mathias.
1, Male brand dark.
2. FW spot 2 & 3 quadrate.
3. UnH greyer with pale marginal shading .
4. UnH spots not dark-ringed.
TL Seow: Cheers.
Thank you very much Dr. Seow.
I think we need to study this subject further.
P. thrax looks difficult. We'll keep learning anyways.
Thanks T L Seow Sir. Actually if we know them perfectly then finding chances will be high (for me). Always I am going with male sex band and imaginery line (UPF nearer cell spots) which was make me very much confused.
Respected T L Seow Sir,
Can you share some images of P. mathias where we will get clear upper wing view (male dark brand, FW spot 2,3)
Regards,
Rajib Dey
I kind of forgot that P. mathias is also found in Africa since my reference book did not mention it.
In fact both P. thrax & mathias are found widely in Subsaharan Africa.
http://www.metamorphosis.org.za/arti...s%20Walker.pdf
As there is no example of P. thrax with whitish shading through out the Mediterranean & the Middle East, this means the examples with white marginal shading on the wings are mis-ID'ed P. mathias.
eg.http://tolweb.org/Pelopidas_thrax
The three species can now be separated with greater confidence.
Pelopidas thrax.
1. Upperside; FW with upper cellspot typically wide (elongate horizontally),often teardrop shape.
Male with the brand whitish.
Female with spots rather larger than in P. agna & mathias female.
2.Underside uniformly light brown.
HW spots with darker brown margins ,some of the spots reduced to dark rings/spots.
Underpart of body generally whiter thn the other species.
Males.
https://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/174735.jpg
http://www.pyrgus.de/bilder1/hesperi...rax_3f2013.jpg
Females.
http://www.pyrgus.de/bilder1/hesperi...rax_8f2013.jpg
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/F...Swift_05-5.jpg
Subspecies masta Sikkim to Manipur.
UnH with spots 4 & 5, the rest absent or reduced to dark spots.
Pelopidas agna
1. Upperside both cellspots rounded.
Male brand dark.
Male spot 2 & 3 typically narrow & rectangular.
A line through the two cellspots usually bypass or just tip the lower end of the brand.
2. Underside uniformly brown ,often ochreous.
HW spots not margined in darker brown.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/93090001.html
Males.
https://ml.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E0%...ai_078_(2).jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...Horace-Tan.jpg
Females.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check..._female_02.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...SwiftF-KSK.jpg
Pelopidas mathias
1. Upperside FW cellspots rounded.
Male brand dark.
Male spot 2 & 3 typically quadrate but may be somewhat rectangular.
A line through the two cellspot cut the lower part of the male brand.
Female spots as in the female P. agna . A line thru the 2 cellspots is closer to the spot in space 1b than in the case of the P. agna female but not reliable.
2. Underside greyer brown ,uneven, with pale shadings in the marginal areas ,variable; HW spots may have darker margins.
http://yutaka.it-n.jp/hes/93120001.html
Males.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-vu2BuAb4wk...side_03XYZ.gif
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-vqr7KmROfe...perside_01.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Gzu0QPtBPM...nded+Swift.jpg
Females.
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-f8ydI8r9_g...perside_01.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Zld9bl5mdB...S_adult_01.jpg
The best identification is from the underside
P. mathias ; Un with paler whitish shadings in the marginal areas ; spots may have dark margins ;UpF male brand dark.
P. agna .UnH uniform brown, ochreous, spots without dark margins; UpF male brand dark
P. thrax; UnH uniform light brown ;spots with dark margins, some spots may be reduced to dark rings/dots; UpF male brand whitish, upper cellspot elongate .
TL Seow: Cheers.
Thanks Dr Seow for very detailed explanations.
Greetings for South India Dr Seow
ID help requested on following two specimens.
I have only one UN view image of this one. Is it possible to identify it? Image shot in our home garden, Mangalore, Coastal Karnataka, South India in November 2017
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4862/...6aa4446f_m.jpg20171104-IMG_0227 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
The following two pictures are of the same individual shot at Sammilan Shetty Butterfl Park, Belvai, (On the base of Western Ghats) near Mangalore, Karnataka, South India in Sept 2017
I am unable to fix the id at Pelopidas mathias / agna / subochracea / conjuncta. Though P. subochracea is usually found in deep forest with bamboo plantations, some authors are of the view
that they occur in urban and semiurban areas also because of the ornamental bamboo being planted in gardens.
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4823/...7bd73d30_n.jpgJPG-20170919-P1040788 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4822/...b346de57_n.jpgJPG-20170919-P1040790 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
The following one shot at our home in Mangalore, Coastal Karnataka, South India in June 2017
https://farm5.staticflickr.com/4828/...6b786d90_n.jpgP1080565 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
Post 12.
1. Pelopidas agna male. subapical spots are well out of line.
The underside is quite evenly brown though there is a marginal b'band' which appear more structural ,than die to clour change.
Male & female.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...gale_ak890.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/579/22...f00c7df8_b.jpg
P. mathias male & female :Diffuse pale shadins marginal & UnH centrally.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...88e37405-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...5811259b-1.jpg
2 & 3 Female P. agna. Pix 2 shows UnF marginal area evenly brown.
Female P. agna; aline thru the 2 cellspots move away from the spot in space 1b.
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check..._female_02.jpg
Female P. mathias ;a line thru the cellspots moves near or cut spot 1b.
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-eYsLtkDVM7...perside_02.jpg
4.. Female probably P. mathiasA line thru the FW cellspots move towards spot 1b; spot 2 more crescentic.
P. subochracea; Large ;FW subapical spots more in line; celspots large.
UnH spots reduced , often spot 2, 3, 6, (as in Borbo) with spot 6 biggest; spot are slightly dark-rimmed.
Marginal areas may be lightly paler.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sp...as-subochracea
Pelopias conjunctus/conjuncta.Large.
FW spots distinctly yellow; UnH spots white.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...Saji_ac764.jpg
TL Seow: Cheers.
Thank you so much for all the help Dr. Seow.
Greetings from South India Dr Seow
Uploading two images of the same specimen. Id help would be appreciated.
Is it Pelopidas Agna Female? Shot at our home, Mangalore. West Coast of Karnataka State today.
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...689c1bc7_b.jpg20190710-IMG_6052 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...9cae986b_b.jpg20190710-IMG_6057 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
Post 16.
These Pelopidas can be very tough to ID.
P. mathias is greyer on the underside & also have more uneven shadings.
http://butterflycircle.blogspot.com/...ded-swift.html
In P. agna UnH is more uniform in colour.
http://butterflycircle.blogspot.com/...gal-swift.html
The UnH looks uneven & is also greyer than in post 12.
UnH spot 7 is more often present in P. mathias.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sp...opidas-mathias
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/sp...Pelopidas-agna
The upF alignment of the two cellspots seem to move away from the space 1b spot suggesting P. agnabut this often variable.
Overall I think it is P. mathias but certainly not confident here.
TL Seow: Cheers.
True Dr. Seow. These little rascals jump up and down, make us run behind them and when we shoot a photo they are a pain to identify.
But I am optimistic :):):)
Yes, the UNH colouration is uneven.
Spot 2 on UPF is usually quadrate in P. mathias, which is not the case in this specimen.
There in no brand on UPF in female. (To check where the imaginary line thru cell spots cut the brand). These two points confused me on the id.
But yes, on the whole pointers are towards P. mathias.
Thank you so much.
Greetings from Karnataka Dr Seow
Would this be a Pelopidas Agna? Image shot in Mangalore, Coastal Karnataka.
(From your previous teachings what I observe is UnF marginal area evenly brown. A line thru the 2 cellspots move away from the spot in space 1b.)
https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3f7d2dfb_c.jpg2019-12-20 by GKBaliga, on Flickr
Yes. This is a typical female P. agna.
TL Seow: Cheers.
Thank you so much Dr. Seow.