Id help appreciated for Western Ghat Species

Greetings from South India Dr. Seow

I have three issues to discuss with you. I know different people interpret in different ways. Hey that's OK. I am a hobbyist. I just wanted to know your "Opinion". Never mind what others think.

1. How does one generally describe the "Wing span of a butterfly"

2. How does one determine the largest or smallest butterfly in a region, say in India. Is it based on the individual specimen or based on general size of the species as such.

3. Is the following species Nacaduba berenice - Female? I am basing my assumption on the point of existence of Spot in costal region in line with basal band

All photos of the same specimen shot at Agumbe, on top of Western Ghats in Karnataka. Agumbe is considered as the place with highest rainfall in South India

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...3eca3087ef.jpg20190923-IMG_7334 by GKBaliga, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...82f8cff4c5.jpg20190923-IMG_7334a by GKBaliga, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...70fbddb7e9.jpg20190923-IMG_7328 by GKBaliga, on Flickr

1. The wingspan of a butterfly is determined in two ways.

A. In the old days of butterfly collecting the wingspan is the tip to tip measurement of a standard set specimen.
A standard set specimen is one with the FW lower margin (dorsum) set in a straight horizontal line.
This is the wingspan quoted in older reference books.
This is largely superseded by measurement of the forewing length.
https://www.butterfliesandmoths.org/..._kondla1_1.jpg

B. Nowaday it is the greatest measurement from wingtip to wingtip. This is also usually the natural flying position which the buttrfly can exert maximum thrust.
This is similar to the wingspan of a bird.
https://previews.123rf.com/images/te...ith-clippi.jpg
https://www.biolib.cz/IMG/GAL/283077.jpg


2. The largest butterfly is based on the general size of the population. This is again based on one fixed criteria, wingspan. It does not matter if the butterfly is stoutly built like a Troides or slender like an Idea.
For example in Troides & Atrophaneura the male is described as smaller ,but often in body size it is the same .It just has smaller wings.
https://www.insect-sale.com/photo/in...ra-nox-nox.jpg

Nacaduba 6-line Blues in South India.

N. beroe; Innermost costal spot absent in both sexes;FW band usually with partial mid-dislocation; Male dark striae within postdiscal band poor or obsolete. UpF without frosting.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...949da7a9-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...95727b2f-1.jpg

Female UN. dark striae normal; UpF blue patch edged with white spots.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...0cfe1ecc-2.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...0cfe1ecc-1.jpg

N. kurava ;innermost costal spot always present, FW band often straight; UnF submarginal spots often large with rounded margins; Male with poor dark striae.Upperisde without frosting/ may be partly transparent.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...gale_ah232.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...634d7cbf-1.jpg

Female UpF blue patch with its apex strongly white shaded.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...gale_ai374.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...gale_ai375.jpg
Another female . No underside.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...huri_as043.jpg

N. berenice; UnF innermost costal spot always present;underside dark striae strong; FW band usually with partial mid-dislocation.Upperside light blue with frosting, like sprinkled white powder.
Three males with uppersides.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...huri_as039.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...huri_as038.jpg

https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...ekar_ag351.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...ekar_ag350.jpg

https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...2ae6a219-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...2ae6a219-2.jpg

Note N. berenice is very variable.
This is just one female form. Un. as in the male ;UpF with light dull lavender blue.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...kare_aq674.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...kare_aq673.jpg

Nacaduba calauria.

These are probably N. calauria males.
The submarginal spots are lunulate in pix 1 & 2 & FW spots 4 & 5 sharp-pointed.
The 3rd pic has most of the submarginal spots flattened, but spots 4 & 5 sharp & FW band straight.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...288755ea-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...2b069506-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...26996faa-1.jpg

N. calauria in P. Malaysia & Singapore is slightly different.
FW spots 4 & 5 are sharply pointed & FW band almost always straight & intact.
Male P.Malaysia.
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-W2NrSA7qJ...0/DSC_1694.JPG
Singapore male & female.
https://wanderingbutterflyeffect.fil...b3ad98860e.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...yica---2--.jpg

The male upperside is a darker violet & female a darker blue than that of N. berenice female.

If the4se observations are correct then this female looks like it is N. calauria.


TL Seow : Cheers.

Thank you so much for the detailed discussion Dr Seow

Greetings from South India Dr Seow

I give here below 3 photos of the same specimen. Could it be a Female Pelopidas suochracea or P. conjuncta?
Guidance appreciated. Photo taken just below Western Ghats Kudremukh Ranges, at Mala near Karkala, Karnataka


https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...4eea091d6f.jpg20190922-IMG_7053 by GKBaliga, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0a71a8bbba.jpg20190922-IMG_7057 by GKBaliga, on Flickr

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...528a3b94c6.jpg20190922-IMG_7058 by GKBaliga, on Flickr

Greetings Dr. Seow... I didn't see you in the forum for quiet a few days.

Could you please have a look at my last post ?

Could it be Pelopidas conjuncta or Pelopidas suochracea

I seem to have missed seeing this one.

Female Pelopidas agna.

Spots relatively small, FW spota not much yellower than HW. UnH uniformly coloured, may be greenish ochreous.
Female UpF celspots small, rounded, spot 2 with angular margins ;subapical spots not aligned.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pelopi...18_09_2012.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...A_male_06a.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check...SwiftF-KSK.jpg
http://www.butterflycircle.com/check..._female_02.jpg

Pelopidas conjuncta ;FW spots large, distinctly yellow compared to HW whitish spots. Male without a brand.
Subapical spots not aligned; UnH postdiscal spots 2, 3, 4, & 6. Small spot 5 may be present.UpF spot 2 with rounded corners.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...Saji_ac764.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...4b95e743-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...ced02493-1.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...34296bc3-4.jpg


Pelopidas subochracea. FW spots whitish, same as on HW; Subapical spots more or less aligned.
UnH with postdiscal spots 2, 3, & 6 (occassinal spot 4 ), subequal, spot 6 the largest.
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...Saji_ae455.jpg
https://www.ifoundbutterflies.org/me...unte_ak557.jpg

TL Seow: Cheers.

Thank you so much Dr Seow.

I tripped myself in the id.