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Rustic
15-Aug-2004, 03:25 PM
The knights of P.Ubin seem to be different from that of Sime Forest.

@ near OBS-camp2 (2004-Aug-14)
http://www.fotofile.org/photopost/data/6070/118DSC_1335_3MP_sz_iso_NN-med.jpg

@ Terentail Trail (2004-May-15)
http://www.fotofile.org/photopost/data/6070/118DSC_7824_crop-3MP_resz-1200_usm-1-med.JPG

Elbowed Pierrot
15-Aug-2004, 05:53 PM
here are 2 more local ones for comparison

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/simonsng/Butterfly%20collection/MacRitchie/7769_s.jpg
male

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v84/simonsng/Butterfly%20collection/MacRitchie/7764_s.jpg
Female

Commander
15-Aug-2004, 06:55 PM
Good that CP noticed the differences. However, I'd still say that the Terentang Trail specimen is just worn and weary, and the variation of the mauve (that's light bluish) border of the hindwings are just a tad worn out. The local subspecies parkeri has that bluish tinge - more so in the female than in the male, but the ones at Ubin and Tekong have more variations that they appear to be closer to the subspecies malayana that is found just across the Straits of Johor.

You can see the differences on my website (http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/2382/nymphalidae/nymphalinae/martha.htm). The Malaysian subspecies was shot at Desaru. The 3rd subspecies found in Pulau Langkawi is even more orange-red in colour.

Elbowed Pierrot
15-Aug-2004, 07:16 PM
Good that CP noticed the differences. However, I'd still say that the Terentang Trail specimen is just worn and weary, and the variation of the mauve (that's light bluish) border of the hindwings are just a tad worn out. The local subspecies parkeri has that bluish tinge - more so in the female than in the male, but the ones at Ubin and Tekong have more variations that they appear to be closer to the subspecies malayana that is found just across the Straits of Johor.

You can see the differences on my website (http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/Vines/2382/nymphalidae/nymphalinae/martha.htm). The Malaysian subspecies was shot at Desaru. The 3rd subspecies found in Pulau Langkawi is even more orange-red in colour.

interesting insight on the knight

Rustic
15-Aug-2004, 11:37 PM
Good that CP noticed the differences. However, I'd still say that the Terentang Trail specimen is just worn and weary, and the variation of the mauve (that's light bluish) border of the hindwings are just a tad worn out.

oops. I just realise that I have labelled wrongly. ;P
(not going to edit the original post to avoid confusion).

Commander
16-Aug-2004, 12:09 AM
oops. I just realise that I have labelled wrongly. ;P
(not going to edit the original post to avoid confusion).

Heh heh... so the one labelled Terentang Trail is actually from Ubin? That's more like it. The ones in Ubin and Tekong have slightly more red and less blue, but the variations are inconclusive. We have a specimens displaying a range of variations, and the worn-out ones cause even more confusion.

Rustic
16-Aug-2004, 12:34 AM
Heh heh... so the one labelled Terentang Trail is actually from Ubin? That's more like it. The ones in Ubin and Tekong have slightly more red and less blue, but the variations are inconclusive. We have a specimens displaying a range of variations, and the worn-out ones cause even more confusion.

are the color due to structural variations? was reading up a bit the other day about the coloration. :)

Commander
16-Aug-2004, 08:48 PM
are the color due to structural variations? was reading up a bit the other day about the coloration. :)

Gets rather cheem, these evolutionary processes which split the species into sub-species. After many generations, they sometimes evolve further into a distinct species, where they can no longer mate with another of the same species (from which it evolved).

Lots of such endemic subspecies on the islands of Malaysia, where the butts look quite different from the mainland species.

Common Rose
16-Aug-2004, 10:32 PM
Gets rather cheem, these evolutionary processes which split the species into sub-species. After many generations, they sometimes evolve further into a distinct species, where they can no longer mate with another of the same species.

Read something like this 1-2 weeks ago. There is a "type" of birds that live in the artic circle. Starting from a particular place and going anti-clockwise, there are five different "forms" 1 to 5. "Forms" from consecutive numbers can inter-breed, so technically they are subspecies. However, 'forms' 1 and 5, which live close to each other, cannot inter-breed, which means different species! :sweat: