Arctiine or Zygaenid or Stathmopodinae?

[orionmystery]

I photographed this skittish little red moth in Semenyih, Selangor, Malaysia. Approx 1 cm in size.

https://fbcdn-sphotos-g-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-ash3/q71/s720x720/1174550_10151837800128276_787394232_n.jpg

According to the ID on this Flickr image, it's Oecophoridae, Stathmopodinae - maybe Atkinsonia sp.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/53952143@N04/4992899945/

My entomologist friend on Facebook, Doug Yaneda, however, disagrees with the ID.

His observations: There are a few very important differences: (1) the antennae are dramatically different in both structure and coloration (2) the resting posture of true stathmopodines is *stereotypical*, with the wings folded and the legs raised (3) the black fringe on the wings of Atkinsonia is an actual fringe, not just a black-scaled portion of the wing itself (4) the scales, especially on the thorax, of true Atkinsonia are *glossy*.

Your thoughts on this?

Thanks!

[guldsmed]

I agree with your friend, though I do not know what it is. These pages illustrate his points:

http://natural-japan.net/?cat=9&paged=37

http://baba-insects.blogspot.dk/2012/05/atkinsonia-sp.html

I do not see the big, curved palps in your critter either, but could possibly be the angle?

[guldsmed]

Somehow it reminds me of a sesiid, but I do not think it is. Looking forward to the solution :-)

[orionmystery]

Only got this other shot:

https://fbcdn-sphotos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-prn2/1240581_10151842534778276_1261633546_n.jpg

[Psyche]

I don't think it is Oecophoridae for the way the forewings are unable to round the broad thorax to fully cover the abdomen as in Oecophoridae.
That plus the smooth antennae.
Here is another example of an Oecophorid, Snellenia.
The base of the forewings are shaped to go over the lower part of the thorax.
http://www.brisbaneinsects.com/brisbane_concealermoths/LycidMimicMoth.htm


No match for Zygaenid from Moths of Borneo.


TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

No match from Arctiinae or Phaudidae.
Phaudidae have unfringed wings..
http://i796.photobucket.com/albums/yy250/merca_empolin/Lepidoptera/Phaudaflammans2.jpg

The brroad thorax & banded abdomen look like it should be Sesiidae although there is no direct match found.
http://www.juzaphoto.com/shared_files/uploads/169731.jpg
http://mothphotographersgroup.msstate.edu/Files1/JAP/300/JAP2520-300.jpg


TL Seow:cheers:
PS. A check shows some Oecophorids were transferred from Sesiidae. They are very similar.
This looks likely to be a species of Snellenia , the white banded abdomen is very similar.
Unfortunately the examples shown are from Australia.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=Snellenia&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Rz0pUuujAbGtiQfyn4CgBw&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=595

[Psyche]

The Thai website clearly shows the typical posture with the large spiny hind legs raised.
This plus the white banded abdomen & fringed wings indicates it has to be Stathmmopodinae after all.

A crosscheck with NHM shows only a few species of Snellenia.
Eliminating the Australian ones (which appear to be endemic) brings up 4 species. 1 spp S. latipes- Brazilian.

S. coccinea TL Himalaya.
S. tarsella TL Himalaya.
S. ignispergens. TL japan.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

Oops! I just realised this is neither Atkinsonia nor Snellenia.

The curved palpi should be visible even at the angle shown.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/itchydogimages/6898462256/in/photostream/

The curved palpi of Snellenia are enormous ( I thought they were legs earlier).
http://www.brisbaneinsects.com/brisbane_concealermoths/LycidMimicMoth.htm

It looks like it is back to being a kind of Sesiid.

TL Seow:cheers:
PS. Other examples of Oecophorids showing the palpi are easily seen.

Stathmopoda
http://www.northumberlandmoths.org.uk/admin/getthumbs.php?id=826

Eretmocera
http://m5.i.pbase.com/g9/98/981498/2/150876155.yZFPUjfP.jpg

Aeloscelis
http://www2.nrm.se/en/svenska_fjarilar/d/images/denisia_stipella_male.gif

PS 2. More Oecophorids showing 'snout' & long fringes on FW.
http://flickrhivemind.net/Tags/oecophoridae/Interesting

[Psyche]

Another example from Thailand with the abdomen fairly straight.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/63288875@N04/7793842710/in/photostream/

No Sesiid have such proportinately large & long wings; HW of sesiid tends to be bigger than FW; FW not symmetrical in shape ; antenna shorter. with the tip curved or hooked.

The superfamily Gelechioidea contains moths usually with prominent curved labial palps; slender bodies & wings completely folded at rest.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelechioidea

The identity may yet lies with one of the macromoth families.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Psyche]

I seem to be going in circle with this one.

I have cheched the superfamily Sesioidea without result.

So I am trying a logical approach which may well turn ut to be the correct one.

In the course of checking out these moths I realised the antennal difference is due to the sex, the male with more coarsely featured ones.
The almost symmetrically-shaped forewings & orange-red colouration is seen in both Atkinsonia & Snellenia.( & Tinaegeria -neotropical).

It is possible the male may have larger & more prominent labial palps & also longer fringe on the forewings.
Snellenia with its enormous palps can be discounted. There are only 2 Himalayan sppecies.

Here is the female from northern Thailand ( fat abdomen , smooth antennae. smaller spiny hind legs.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53952143@N04/4992899945/in/photostream/

Here is the male from Yunnan. (slender- built. pectinate antennae, larger more spiny legs , longer palps longer hair fringe on FW.)
Note identical colour to the female above. Forewing & thorax wholly orange-red, head black.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/itchydogimages/6898462256/in/photostream/

Since the male is identifiable as Atkinsonia, it follows the female is likewise so.

There are several species in the region.

TL Seow

[Psyche]

I seem to be going in circle with this one.

I have cheched the superfamily Sesioidea without result.

So I am trying a logical approach which may well turn ut to be the correct one.

In the course of checking out these moths I realised the antennal difference is due to the sex, the male with more coarsely featured ones.
The almost symmetrically-shaped forewings & orange-red colouration is seen in both Atkinsonia & Snellenia.( & Tinaegeria -neotropical).

It is possible the male may have larger & more prominent labial palps & also longer fringe on the forewings.
Snellenia with its enormous palps can be discounted. There are only 2 Himalayan sppecies.

Here is the female from northern Thailand ( fat abdomen , smooth antennae. smaller spiny hind legs.)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/53952143@N04/4992899945/in/photostream/

Here is the male from Yunnan. (slender- built. pectinate antennae, larger more spiny legs , longer palps, longer hair fringe on FW.)
Note identical colour to the female above. Forewing & thorax wholly orange-red, head black.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/itchydogimages/6898462256/in/photostream/

Since the male is identifiable as Atkinsonia, it follows the female is likewise so.

There are several species in the region.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Peter Smetacek]

Sessidae?

[Psyche]

Sesiidae?

Tried out the Sesiidae without result.
The long straight antenna & long forewings are also against it.

On reflection the ID of ? Atkinsonia is probably correct all along.

TL Seow:cheers:

[orionmystery]

Thanks for your input, Dr. Seow, and Peter.

There's a discussion going on in the Entomology Group in FB here. : https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151837802863276&set=gm.10151707397393393&type=1&relevant_count=1&ref=nf

[guldsmed]

So expert opinion is now Schreckensteiniidae.. Kurt, think that if you ever see this again, you should take (a) voucher(s).

[Psyche]

Quite a surprise to settle on Shreckensteiniidae.

There are only 5 species, none of them red.
Forewing-shape, antenna & leg spines do not match.
http://www.springerreference.com/docs/html/chapterdbid/90353.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schreckensteiniidae

TL Seow:cheers:

[guldsmed]

Yes, Seow - I do not think it evident either, that is why I suggested vouchers should there ever be a chance :-)