Common Birdwing(?)

[horace2264]

Found this Birdwing with the spots on the upperside conjoined, and those on the underside disjoined. :hmmm: The typical Common Birdwing female has spots disjoined on both under- and uppersides. :thinking:

[Commander]

Rather large spots, but you're right, it's probably an aberration or variation in the spots rather than a different species here.

[Psyche]

A bit of variation in the size of the black spots is not unusual. Races from the eastern islands of the Malay archipelago have even larger & conjoined spots.

There is no indication of a trace of amphrysus blood. It would appear that the marginal spots are larger & taller.

TL Seow:cheers:

[horace2264]

A bit of variation in the size of the black spots is not unusual. Races from the eastern islands of the Malay archipelago have even larger & conjoined spots.

There is no indication of a trace of amphrysus blood. It would appear that the marginal spots are larger & taller.

TL Seow:cheers:
Thanks, Seow for the comments and confirmation. :)
With such variations in hindwing spots for the female, keys 4 and 7 (pages 58-59, C&P4) need to be revised to include such possibilities.

[Psyche]

With such variations in hindwing spots for the female, keys 4 and 7 (pages 58-59, C&P4) need to be revised to include such possibilities.

The same variations are also seen in examples of T. helena female in Malaysia.
C&P4's key is meant for the race cerberus only & that only for the usual forms. To include the uncommon variations will surely overlaps with that of amphrysus.

In the same way, the female of ssp. ruficollis of T. amphrysus may have the large black submarginal spots not actually touching each other, i.e. not conjoined, but are joined to the marginal spots.
The female is identifiable by other means; the forewing is brown never black; the vein-stripes are arranged in such a way that there is a square area of dark brown in the basal 1/2.
The thorax on the underside of both sexes is totally black, and never with the red mark seen in helena .

TL Seow:cheers:

[teotp]

There are many variations of T. helena cerberus. Specimens examined by Haugum & Low (1982-1985) from BMNH, RMNH, Copenhagen Zool. Museum., Treadaway Frankfurt Coll. ..etc. and documented by them:

Male forms:
1. f-cerberus Felder: with median stripe on underside of FW, upperside also distinctly striped, and HW with larger subcostal patch.
2. f-eumagos Jordan 1908: FW without median stripe, or the latter submarginal; the subcostal patch of the HW typically reduced in size.
3. f- no name: HW with full compliment of small black spots.
4. f- no name: HW notably triangular, with outer margin convex instead of concave (samples from Cameron Highlands).
5. f- no name: HW with a black blotch within the subcostal space, a large black spot in the space below, an smaller spots in the remaining spaces(N. India & Thailand).
6. f- no name: Costal-subcostal of HW much extended, the black spots increased in size (Thailand).

Female forms:
1. f-chongkiakwangi Tung 1981: a male like form which largely lack of blacks spots on the HW.
2. f- no name: Pale vien stripes and cell-patch coloured bluish-grey.
3. f- no name: Pale vien stripes and cell-patch coloured yellow or yellow-tan.
4. f- pluto Felder 1864: Pale area of HW coloured with red instead of yellow.

Similarly for T. amphrysus ruficollis (both males and females), many variations too.

Specimen variation occurs partly due to genetic mutations and varying environmental factors(e.g. availability and quality of larval food..), but most important is because of individuals possess different combinations from the selection of genes available to them.

Teo T P

(FW= forewings; HW= hindwings; BMNH= British Museum Natural History; RMNH= Rijksmuseum van Natuurlijke Histoire, Leiden)

[Silverstreak]

Teo,

Thank you for sharing these informations!!!

:cheers:

[Psyche]

Wow ! Teo, you certainly are thorough.

f-chongkiakwangi is the interesting one. There is a pic by Frederick in BC blog Butt of the Month, Common Birdwing.

TL Seow:cheers:

[Commander]

Wow ! Teo, you certainly are thorough.

f-chongkiakwangi is the interesting one. There is a pic by Frederick in BC blog Butt of the Month, Common Birdwing.

TL Seow:cheers:

You meant this shot by Anthony, and not Federick?

[Psyche]

You meant this shot by Anthony, and not Federick?

Yes. I stand corrected. When I first saw it, I almost wanted to think it was a new species.
It looked so wonderfully different.

TL Seow:cheers:

[teotp]

[QUOTE - Psyche: f-chongkiakwangi is the interesting one.]

The related reference is "New forms of Papilionidae from the Malay Peninsula" which appeared in Lep. Group 68 Newsletter vol.11 (nos. 12-13):193-196, 1982 by Vincent Tung W. Y. of Malaysia. Apparently "chong kiak wang" looks like somebody's name?

Teo T P

[Psyche]

[QUOTE - [B] Apparently "chong kiak wang" looks like somebody's name?

Teo T P

In the past adding an i was meant to create a gender-neutral latin version of the surname, but nowaday anything goes.

Name like brookiana (feminine - gender ) becomes problematic when the species is transfered from Ornithoptera ( feminine-gender) to Troides ( masculine-gender ) since the genders must match in Latin. But nobody is following this strictly because of varying opinions regarding the generic status, and whether a surname once rendered as brookiana can be changed to brookianus( musculine-gender ) since it is a proper noun.

A stunning aberration of T. brookiana with extensive metallic green was named wongensis ( author unknown ). This is wrong, as it means 'from a place called Wong'. I suppose for aberrations you can name it as you like it.

TL Seow:cheers:

[teotp]

QUOTE=Psyche: A stunning aberration of T. brookiana with extensive metallic green was named wongensis ( author unknown ). This is wrong, as it means 'from a place called Wong'. I suppose for aberrations you can name it as you like it.

The author is my good friend Dato' Henry Barlow (please refer to Malayan Nature Journal vol.25 no.2 : 168-169, Sep 1972) The insect was caught by Mr. Wong Kam Chong, and named var. wongensis after Mr. Wong. Another f-wongensis specimen was collected by Vincent Tung, also similar male was figured by Tsukuda & Nishiyama (see Butterflies of The South East Asian Islands, page 55 - Plate 31 fig 2.).

Teo T P

[Psyche]

QUOTE=Psyche:

The author is my good friend Dato' Henry Barlow (please refer to Malayan Nature Journal vol.25 no.2 : 168-169, Sep 1972) The insect was caught by Mr. Wong Kam Chong, and named [I]var. wongensis after Mr. Wong. Another f-wongensis specimen was collected by Vincent Tung, also similar male was figured by Tsukuda & Nishiyama (see Butterflies of The South East Asian Islands, page 55 - Plate 31 fig 2.).

Teo T P

I certainly didn't realised he was the author of that name. My apology then if you are offended.

TL Seow:cheers:

[teotp]

QUOTE=Psyche: I certainly didn't realised he was the author of that name. My apology then if you are offended.

No lah. Sometime I also forgot things (getting old!). One immediate example is I forgot the word "volume I" and wrote "Butterflies of The South East Asian Islands, page 55, plate 31 fig.2".

Teo T P

[Psyche]

Point noted.

TL Seow.

[DANIEL ARIFF TUNG]

Hi everyone.

To my surprise, I am very pleased and delighted to know that there is still a group of butterfly enthusiast in Malaysia.

I have read some of your discussions and I find it very interesting.

I wonder if I could perhaps join in and share with you some of my interesting catches (for the past 10 years) to keep the discussions going.

p/s: My father, Vincent Tung was an avid collector during the 80s. Nowadays, my father rarely collects as age catches up.

Warmest regards,
Daniel :cheers:

[Glorious Begum]

Hi everyone.

To my surprise, I am very pleased and delighted to know that there is still a group of butterfly enthusiast in Malaysia.

I have read some of your discussions and I find it very interesting.

I wonder if I could perhaps join in and share with you some of my interesting catches (for the past 10 years) to keep the discussions going.

p/s: My father, Vincent Tung was an avid collector during the 80s. Nowadays, my father rarely collects as age catches up.

Warmest regards,
Daniel :cheers:


Welcome to Butterfly Circle Daniel. Glad to know that another member from Malaysia. I am in Shah Alam, do catch up for Teh Tarik one day. Love to learn more about butterfly from you. :cheers:

[teotp]

Hi everyone.

To my surprise, I am very pleased and delighted to know that there is still a group of butterfly enthusiast in Malaysia.

I wonder if I could perhaps join in and share with you some of my interesting catches (for the past 10 years) to keep the discussions going.

p/s: My father, Vincent Tung was an avid collector during the 80s. Nowadays, my father rarely collects as age catches up.

Welcome to Butterfly Discussion Forums Daniel. Glad to hear that Mr. Vincent Tung has someone to continue his work. I am a learner from Singapore and do share some of your catches and experiences with us.

Teo T P